Breaking the Stigma: Marc Paisant Opens Up About His Struggles with Men’s Mental Health

[00:00:00] What is the most important takeaway you want people to hear today from this show? Self-care is not selfish, and if you think about everything that's important in your life, family, friends, your job, your hobbies, everything that you find important, there is one common denominator and it's you. None of that stuff can happen.

None of those things that make you happy happen without you. So reframe. Know that you are important and know that self-care is not selfish.

Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential? Growing to the men we dream of being while taking care of our responsibilities, working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves. Well, that's the big question in this podcast. We'll help you answer those questions and more.

[00:01:00] My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast.

Welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. You're home for all things, man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation and warm. Welcome to our first time listeners. My name is Brent, and today my guest is coach and entrepreneur, mark Pison. Mark, welcome to the Fallow Man Podcast. Brent, this is amazing.

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm excited about today's discussion, but we'd like to start out on the lighter side here. So Mark, we have random trivia. Okay. Okay, so the question of the show is, the world's first game of ice hockey was played with a puck. Made from, what material is it?

A stone B ice. C. Cower manure. R d wood. It. I'm a total guess I'm gonna say ice. Ice. All right guys, you know the rules. Don't jump to the end of the show. Don't cheat. Just [00:02:00] wait for it. It will come. All right? And we'll check back in with that. Now, mark, I don't do big introductions because accolades don't tell my audience anything.

So in your own words, who is Mark Meison? I, I agree with you. Like the, the, the accolades don't really, uh, make me who I am. I, I like to just say I am, I am a husband and a father, a, a brother, an uncle, a nephew who's just trying to be a better version of himself, um, as many days as I can. I, I can't be a better version every day.

That's, that's impossible. So I'm just trying to figure this, this thing called life out and take care of my kids and, and let them know that they, there are people in this world who, who care about them and, and want them to grow up to be the, the best versions of themselves. All right, mark, if you could have a conversation with anyone in history, living or dead, who would it be and why?[00:03:00]

Wow. Um, you know, I think I would, I would have one more conversation with my mother. Um, she passed, uh, about four years ago. And, um, the last few years, I, I was living outta the state and wasn't able to see her as much as I wanted to. And, and just to have, I know there's some big names out there we could say, and, and people have said, you know, Gandhi and, and Jesus and, and Mo, all those things.

But just to have five min more minutes with my mom would, would really, really do the trick for me. You know, I have a lot of people say Jesus, and I'm actually always glad when someone says something other than that. Yeah. I, I know, right? That's the default answer you're supposed to give to Jesus. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Um, and, and that's a great conversation, but no, I I love your answer, man. Uh, people, there's, there's no wrong answer than that. Right, right. I know. I lost my dad about two years ago and I, I'd killed [00:04:00] just having the conversation. Yes. Just one. Just one more. Just one more. And, and of course I know I'd have that one more, and then I want another, and another, but I, I just, right.

I just want five more minutes. That's it. Just five more. I, I miss sitting around and having conversations with my dad, so I get that entirely. Um, now Mark, what is the one thing you're most proud of? Oh, good. Good question. Um, you know, it's the, the thing I'm, I'm proud of, and I think it's a, a question or an answer that that's come out.

That I've focused on lately is just my ability to, to see fault in myself. Um, my ability to work on myself. I know there is a lot of people out there who will be quick to blame their surroundings and, and I'm saying, I'm not saying surroundings are, are not to blame or, or there's, uh, circumstances that are not to blame for, for people's situations.

But [00:05:00] you know, it's, when we talk about pride, that word really is a, is a selfish word cuz it means we're the ones responsible for that outcome. Like, I'm proud of this, I'm proud of that, and I'm really proud that I've started to focus on myself in the past couple years and started to know that there were some things I was doing incorrectly.

There was some. Some thoughts I was having that were, that were selfish, that were, um, that needed to be changed, the behaviors I needed to change and, and it through a lot of soul searching, a lot of work, a lot of difficult conversations with others and myself. I think I'm proud of the, the, the person I've, I've become out of it.

Okay. See, that's a great answer, man. Self, self-realization is, is important. Yes. And it's powerful. Mm-hmm. You can do so much with that. So that No, that's an awesome answer. I love it. Yeah. It, it, I, it's an awesome answer and it's, it, it, it wouldn't have been my answer two years ago. I'll be, I'll be honest with you right now, it would not have been my answer.[00:06:00]

And, uh, I probably would've had some cliche answer and, and we would've gone on and said, okay, great. But there is, there's a lot I'm learning about myself right now, and I love it. I really do. Yeah. But see, that's growth, right? If that, if that had been in your answer two years ago and it was still your answer today, then be like, We haven't progressed much into you.

Right, right. That, that's personal growth, man. That's just the journey. Yeah. So, mark, what's one random fact that people don't know about you? Totally random. Um, it's, it's this, I mean, this is random. I'm, I'm a twin, so I am, I'm a pretty, I'm 6 5, 2 35 and there's two of me. So, um, and people usually you, when people meet me in person, they're like, oh my gosh, you're, you're really tall.

And I'm like, yeah, there's, there's two of me. So God bless my parents for, for feeding us when we were younger. And, and, um, another random thing is we shared the same bedroom until we were 17. [00:07:00] And I'm not talking about a huge bedroom. I'm talking about just, uh, uh, you know, modern suburban, you know, 15 by 15.

And I, I slept in a twin bed until I was 17 years old and shared it with my brother. And I can only imagine. The smell in that room because we both played sports and you know, we both had our soccer and basketball gear in that room. Did our, did our homework at our desk. So we were confined to that space.

But yes, there is, there is a second one of me. So a lot of people don't know that about me. I can't even, my brother and I are far enough apart. Like we went through our gross spur totally different times. And I know I almost ate my mom and dad at a house and home. I, I can't imagine two boys the same age hitting that at the same time.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And we ate a lot. We ate a lot. Well, you know, unless you have boys are, were a boy. You don't, you don't know. I have two daughters, but people who have sons, when they hit start hitting those gross spurts, you got no idea how [00:08:00] much food we got down, right? Yeah. We went through ga gallons of milk in like two days, cereal boxes and half an hour.

It was crazy, but I don't know how they did it, but they did it. Like, what is something everyone should know about you before we start digging into today's subject? Um, I, I love to tell people, I usually start with the fact that I'm, I'm a youth coach and I love doing it. Um, and I know a lot of people don't have the patience for it and, and don't, just don't sign up to do it.

And I love doing, like, I, it, it brings me joy that I know we have practice coming up that day. Like I have, we have practice tomorrow and I've been thinking about it since our game on Saturday. Like, it makes me so happy that I get to spend an hour with these nine year old girls and just teach them not only how to play the sport, but how to just become just great human beings.

And it, it [00:09:00] makes me really happy to do that. So that's, that's something that I love to tell people about what I do. Oh, that's awesome cause mm-hmm. Hey, as, as a parent I app, my daughters, were both in basketball this year and getting onto my schedule is a little bit nuts these days. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, you know, that's, I'm, I'm grateful for youth coaches because I don't know that I want to, I used to coach fifth and sixth grade, uh, sports when I was younger and it, boy, it takes a lot of patience.

It does. It does. And I think I have learned a lot of my patience from them, cuz I, I used to coach boys basketball a while ago. Now I coach girls soccer and of course the skill level is not there. So it takes a real, it takes a really patient person to be able to just break down the sport. Let them [00:10:00] know how to do this correctly.

But at the same time, there has to be the, the perpetual encouragement, like there is, it, it it's data driven that we know that kids are leaving sports in droves in their teenage years just because they're getting burnt out and like they're losing the joy in it. And I, I love keeping the joy in youth sports.

Like it's so much fun to me. Sarah's doing a happy dance in the background, y'all, cuz Sarah and I are both soccer players growing up. So Love that you're coaching soccer. Yeah. Now guys, we, we've been spending a little bit of time just getting to know Mark, right? I want you guys to know who he is in his heart.

As we go into the next portion of the show, we're gonna start diving into men's mental health. It's a little bit more serious of a topic than we cover sometimes because it's, it's just a reality issue. But stick with us. It's gonna be a great conversation. We're gonna roll to our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Mark.

Now before we go any further, I [00:11:00] wanted to share with you guys, I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast. Like I passionately love what I'm doing and one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like Grow Your Show. Grow Your Show is a one-stop podcast.

Do it all. Now I use Grow Your Show for my marketing, but Grow Your Show is literally a one stop shop. You can record your episode and just drop it off with them and they take it from there. It's amazing. If you are interested in picking up podcasting as a hobby or maybe you're looking to expand your business and use podcasting, that aspect, talk to my friends over Grow Your Show.

Adam will take care of you. I guarantee it. I trust him. He's my friend, he's my business colleague, and I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show. Guys, welcome back. In the first part of the show, we spent some time just getting to know Mark and who he is and seeing his heart a little bit. In this part of the show, we're gonna dive into Men's Mental Health.

Now, right off the bat, let me tell you upfront that in [00:12:00] researching the show, uh, you know, I was getting ready for the show. And so I'll be re referencing some statistics during the conversation that come from a study done by the prior group. I will have a link in the notes are in the description, depending on what platform you're on, so you can see that, right?

I'm not making up numbers cuz I don't do that to you guys, but just so you know, that's where it's coming from. And there will be a link in the show notes. Now Mark, what are some of the specific challenges that men face when it comes to addressing their mental health needs, do you think? Oh, um, and it's, it's not, it's not hyperbole or not, you know, taken outta context when we just say it's in our society actually, you know, American society, it's, it's still, there's still that stigma about a man just saying how he's feeling.

If it's not. Great or awesome or, you know, just living my life, you know, it's, it's tough for a man sometimes just to say, I'm tired, I'm beat up. I I need a break. [00:13:00] Um, you know, we have so many people telling us how to be masculine or, or what masculinity looks like, or, or this is how you take care of your family, or this is how you raise young boys.

Or, there's so many people who are experts, and I'm using air quotes on that, um, on what it's what you have to do to be a man. And, and don't get me wrong, like every gender, every race, every society has this, but, you know, for, for most other gen, for women, you know, they have that lifeline of other women and even men who are prepared to listen to them for a minute.

It's, it's tough sometimes because if I just come home from work and, and. And I just don't feel it that day. Society almost puts a pressure on us that you have to work through anything and everything regardless of your feelings and give of [00:14:00] yourself. And that leads men to, to every negative consequence you can think of, whether it be drinking, drugs, sex, food, any type of addiction that is not positive.

And then we see the, you know, suicide rate is the highest amongst men. And we don't talk about that. And what I try to do is just create a platform and not, not even the platform. I come out again as, as a switch five black man in America. And I say, I'm anxious, I'm depressed, I'm nervous. Something you know is, is just beating up at me and I, and I need a break.

And I do those things because others, So others can see me doing them and may say, well, hey, you know, mark is doing them. Why can't I do that? And you know, the other part of that is just creating safe spaces for, for men [00:15:00] to talk. And what I mean by that is men have a very specific way of saying they need help.

And, and we, we rarely ever come out and come home from work and call our buddy up and say, Hey man, tough day at work. I just wanted to talk to somebody. Like we, we, I don't know any of my guy friends that, that have ever done that. But what we do is, is we'll, we'll sit down on the couch and, and we'll say things like, man, oh, what a day.

And that's the cue. That is the cue. And what we get most of the time is, tell me about it. Uh, let's, uh, let's watch this game and, and have this drink. And, and, and it's swept under the rug where. What I've tried to do is, is when I see those cues, especially in my, my male friends, is I like to shut down everything around me, a tv, radio, phone, everything, put it down and, and ask them if, if there's something they wanna talk about or, or just, you know, be an ear for them to vent into.

Because that's, that's a lot of what it is sometimes is just [00:16:00] being that vent or that ear for them to vent into. Because, you know, it's, it's, I can't think of another person on earth than man who is literally judged by what they give. And that is, that's tough. Like what I give society is what I'm judged on.

And what if I don't wanna give society anything that day? Like what if I just wanna be like, that's a tough thing for, for a lot of men to understand. Okay. I, I love the fact, uh, The mental health is something we take very seriously on this platform. I've, I've gotten to work with some great experts over the years on the show, and it's because we don't talk about it, right?

I, I feel very strongly about that. I'm that person. You don't ask how I'm doing because I'm going to give you the answer. Right. It's not gonna be like, oh, I'm great and then we're gonna walk on by, right? Um, I, I freak people out all the time. I'm like, Hey, Brent, how you doing? Well, [00:17:00] you just open a whole can of worms right there, right?

Right. And that's good. We need more, we need more men to do that, right? Like that's great that you do that. Um, and you know, it's great. And, and when you do that, it's like your vulnerability switch has been, is switch. It's switched on. It's on. It's like, well, hey, you know what? Let's talk about it. This is what I'm going through.

And someone's like, oh, oh man. I don't know if I'm prepared for this right conversation right now. But if you answer that way, you're giving someone else the permission. Correct. Also talk. Yes. Which is very cool. It's, it's a horrible habit. Like I, I enjoy a good cigar, but I love having a cigar with my friends.

Mm-hmm. Because there's nothing else happening. Right. We're sitting there, we don't smoke in my house. Mm-hmm. Go outside, sit in the backyard, build a fire. I'll sit there and smoke a cigar and just talk to my friend. And it's just a conversation. And if that goes long enough and a cigar takes a while, it, that conversation stops being that [00:18:00] surface level and we, and we start actually talking.

Right. Right. Not the healthiest way to go about it, but that's one of the things I love about it is, you know, a cigar is a good 45 minutes, an hour commitment without a television conversations are gonna start to get real. I love that. I love That's a great idea. I love it. And I'm, and we all have our vices.

And if a vice leads to great conversation. I mean, what are you gonna say to that Mark? Uh, like I said, I was researching before the show and they found that 77% of men poll have suffered from Connell common mental health symptoms like anxiety, stress, or depression. And if mental health issues are that prevalent in men, why do you think we don't hear more about it in society?

It's not cool, man. It's not cool to talk about it, it's not manly to talk about it. It's, you know, we have that, um, the stigma is around it, and there is [00:19:00] that, that, that competition always be the manly man. Whether we want to have that competition or not. It's, it's almost like we're in that fight or flight most of the time.

Um, where we get those split second decisions are, am am I gonna be a man right now or am I not gonna be a man? You know, I'm, I'm really nervous about this interview, but I'm not gonna let anybody know cuz then they'll know I'm nervous and, and it's like that persona we always have to put up to be a man.

And it's like, just stop for a second. Take a deep breath. And what's the harm And validating your own feelings. Like what is the harm in that? Will someone think less of me? Then I'm gonna tell you right now, that person might not be a great person to have in your life. And that sounds, that sounds hurtful and it sounds really rigid, but it's the steps we need to take because we're harming ourselves.

We can only give [00:20:00] out of a cup that has something in it. Once that runs out and we still try to give and give and give and be that strong masculine, you know, manly man, you know, then it's, it's self-defeating. We're eating ourself from the inside and. The thing about this, which I think most people, I don't know if they don't understand or fail to understand or don't wanna understand, is that once a few more of us start to do it and it becomes common and normal, like we, we are able to, like societal norms are just that.

Like we create them, we're society, um, you know, there's a women that there, there's a, there's a reason why, you know, men don't wear the, the, the leggings and the dressings like they did in the 17 hundreds. And we dress like we do and it's change. It's cuz it, it's society changes. We're we're society and what we do with fashion and what we do with the way we, we dress and the way we interact with each other.

We can do that with our own [00:21:00] feelings too. And we can show a younger generation, our young kids that, wait a second, da daddy was upset about something and he opened up to mommy and he opened up to his friend who was over the house and he op and they talked about it and he didn't hold it in. That means I can do it.

And so we can create the society that allows men to be open and honest with their feelings and allows others to validate those feelings. So I, I wanna run some numbers by you, right? Of the people they, right of, of the poll, they took 40% men said they have never spoken to anybody about their mental health.

For these, and these were the explanations, 40% of the people of the 40% said, I learned to deal with it. 36% said, I don't wanna be a burden on anyone else. 29% said, I'm too embarrassed.[00:22:00]

20% said there's a negative stigma around this type of thing. 17% said, I don't want to admit I need support. 16% said I don't want to appear, want to appear weak. 14% said, I have no one to talk about, talk to, which that, that's just a ho horrible concept idea anyway. In your personal experience with some of your anxiety and mental health challenges with that, right?

What kept you from wanting to talk to people, and how did you change that mindset? Once you mention the amount of men that thought they were a burden like that, that hit me. That really hit me because that's, that's exactly how I felt. I felt that everybody is going through something who, what makes me special?

Swallow this and just move on, and I don't want to be a burden to anyone. [00:23:00] While at the same time, I would never make someone else feel that way. I was always there to listen. I was always there to help out. No one was ever a burden to me, so I kept. You know, pouring from an empty cup. And it got to a point where, you know, I'm, I'm 18 or 19, I'm in college, and I'm, I'm I, I, I'm, I'm coming from a place where I was the man in high school and I've come to a college team that I am not, I'm in a place where I kind of don't want to be.

I don't have many close friends and, and no one I really feel I can talk to. And to this day, I can't tell you why. I walked into our health center and sat down with a therapist. I can't tell you why I did it. I just knew something. Ha, I, I had to talk to someone. I had to, to meet and sit down and vent and get all these feelings out.

[00:24:00] And at that moment, I just felt this ton. Of release and, and I'll never forget what a, what a friend told me when she went to talk to a therapist about postpartum. It's like once you go to a therapist, they're able to hold that weight for you. You don't have to hold it by yourself anymore. And I'll never forget her saying that because that's exactly how I felt.

Now did that just change and clean up everything for me? No, of course not. It was the, the big ages. But I remember feeling like I wasn't a burden to him. Like once I started talking, once you actually start the action of talking, getting it out, the thoughts of being a burden. Kind of, kind of leave, at least they did for me.

Um, now would I just release all of those feelings of being a burden throughout my life? No. You know, I had, it's a constant work, it's a constant process for me. [00:25:00] But once I learned the coping mechanisms and one, once I learned my triggers and once I learned how that people actually do care about me, then things really changed for me.

They estimated that 35% of men think that they've had a diagnosable mental condition, mental health condition at some point in their life, which is that, that's a staggering, staggering number. I know I have struggled with depression in the past and it's something I have to be very cognizant of in my life because I lean towards that as a very natural state for me.

And so, you know, the first time someone actually like told me I was a therapist told me I was in depressed, it was like, Not how I see it, but it doesn't necessarily manifest like anxiety and depression don't manifest for men in ways that most men would think about those issues. [00:26:00] Uh, can we, can we talk about that a little bit?

Yeah. I could tell you, you know, how it manifests for me because I, I internalize a lot, especially when I'm busy, especially when I'm stressed, especially when I think I have the world on my plate and I gotta get it done yesterday and I internalize and I shut down and I just go to my little corner and I work, work, work and burn myself out.

And then time goes by and I get a little better and I do the whole thing over again. And I have a feeling it's probably like that a lot of men where it's like, all these responsibilities are mine. Like I can, I have to get this done and I know exactly what you're talking about. Cuz the first time. I heard those words.

It kind of, it, it shook me when, when, when a therapist says, Hey, you have symptoms of high function anxiety, oh, and by the way, um, you definitely have symptoms of depression. And that was like, well, I've [00:27:00] used the words, I'm depressed, like kind of tongue and cheek before when I've been really sad and down like nothing.

And I knew my, my, I I knew how my body reacted. I knew I'd give myself about two weeks, which this is actually true. Whenever I get really down in my head, I'm like, in about two weeks I'll, I, I won't even feel this anymore. I'll be good. And, and he told me, he's like, well, you're going through a depressive stage and you're not working through it.

You're just kind of holding on for dear life until you just feel better. And I was, I was like, yeah, doesn't everybody do that? Like, doesn't everybody kind of just do that? He's like, no, well, you know, you have to figure out what your triggers are. You have to figure out if it's work, if it's home, if it's something external, if it's something in the seasons that that affects you.

And then you have to prepare with some coping mechanisms, whether that be journaling, whether that be exercising, whether that be just taking time to [00:28:00] meditate. And I think, you know, to answer your question, I think a lot of men just hold onto that timeframe. They're like, you know what? Couple days, couple weeks, I'll be just fine.

Let me just, just get through this. And it's like, man, you know what happened with me is, is I say two weeks, but it used to be two days. It used to be four, it used to be a week, and then it ended up being two weeks. And I just held on. And if you think about it, that's half of a month. That's one 24th of my year where I'm just holding on.

It happened multiple times a year. So we don't be talking about a quarter to a third of my year where I'm just hanging on for dear life until I feel better. And that, that, to me, that's no real way to, to live positively and be the best version of myself. Hey guys. In that study that said the top three issues for mental health issues in men's lives, our work is at 32%, finances at 31% [00:29:00] and their health at 23.

There are a lot of things, but guys understand it's not necessarily showing up the way you imagine it, and it's not because you're broken, it's just because you externalize it in your life differently then. Right? We have these exaggerated tropes in our head, right? We all see movies in our heads like, oh no, depression looks like that.

Instead of the person who like can't drag outta bed and is like dragging, like crawling across the floor. Mm-hmm. It, it doesn't necessarily materialize like that. Guys remember Robin Williams? Right. God rest his soul. No one knew he was struggling with depression. Mental health is a real challenge, and it's something as men we don't talk about very openly.

It's not something that should be taken lightly. And this conversation is just, we're gonna start moving into the next part of the show, but this conversation, guys, it's important. You are important. [00:30:00] You are not alone. And we want to be here for you, and Mark wants to be here for you, right? We're all about community here.

So we've been discussing the issue at hand, a little bit facing men in this part of the show. And the next part of the show, we're gonna start diving into how you can face some of these challenges and move forward in a positive direction. We're gonna roll to our sponsor and we'll be right back with more from Mark.

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Sleep tomorrow. Now let's go on to the show, guys. Welcome back. In the last part of the show, we were discussing men's mental health concerns as men that we're facing these days. And in this part of the show, we're gonna start diving into how you can face these challenges and move forward in a positive direction.

Now Mark, what was your catalyst moment to really take control of your mental health that was challenging you? It was, and, and this is something that I play back often in my head. There was a, there was a time back in my, my late twenties, mid to late twenties where I just had a job that I, I did not like.

And again, you mentioned the stats about what, you know, gives men, you know, pause and, and anxiety and, and stress. And I was at a job that I, I wasn't getting support. I will be honest with you and tell you, I probably wasn't the employee, but I was just trying to, to [00:32:00] do my best. And I was driving home one night in, in a company vehicle and I was on a very, a major highway outside of Washington, DC and I thought to myself, I could just veer this vehicle into oncoming traffic.

I could go across the median and just go, whatever happens, happens. Like I could go headfirst into another vehicle, crash into the divider. I didn't really care what happened to to other people, but I was like, if I do this, someone will have to listen. Someone will have to hear me out. And I think the only reason I did not do it is because I was not in my own vehicle.

I was in a company vehicle, and I, I was thinking about the company, I wasn't thinking about myself. And after I had that, those feelings in my head and, and in my body, I was like, I need help. I need help now. I need help immediately. And [00:33:00] I immediately called the e a p number from my job, employee assistance program, and I talked to a lovely woman.

And I told her what was happening. I told her how I felt and she stayed on the phone with me for probably about 45 minutes and ended up connecting me with a, a therapist so I could start this journey. And, um, cause I never, I never want to feel that way again. Like, I never want to feel that low again.

Where I did not care about my own health or the health of another person on the road. Like I did not want to feel that low again. And that's when I kind of made that choice to, to prioritize my mental health guys, that, that plays right into one of the other statistics that they found. It's 40% of men polls that it would take thoughts of suicide or self-harm to compel them to seek professional help.

Please. I'm begging you. Don't [00:34:00] wait. Don't wait. To that extent, you are more valuable than that. I'm sorry that that was what it took. Man, that's mm-hmm. Uh, I, I understand that very deeply. Cause Yeah, been, that's, uh, I, I was forced into therapy after I tried to kill myself in the military. Mm-hmm. So it it's real, like, it's real.

It's, it's unfortunate that we feel we don't have the space a lot of times. But, um, I'm, I'm very thankful and happy that you're here and, and I'm, I'm glad we're, we're having this discussion guys. We aren't making up stats. That's why I'm gonna have them listed. Men experience these things. This is real, this is a real conversation.

And your mental health is so important. We, we talk about self-care on this show a lot. This is why. You matter, it matters. The national rate is [00:35:00] four to one on suicide. Men are four times more likely and are are more likely. Men kill themselves four times one over women. Now, mark, you said you had some negative experiences with therapy.

Mm-hmm. And it sounds like you have some good experiences with therapy as well. What are your thoughts about it at this point in your life? I am, I'm very thankful for my therapy journey, and I've talked about it often. The, unfortunately the, the, the person that e a p had sent me to was, um, you know, we, we got through some sessions and by the third session he kind of, kind of, you know, wiped his hands and said, okay, mark, well that's all you got and, and, you know, good luck to you.

And, and I thought that was therapy. I thought that was it. I thought, okay, I, I, I guess I'm good. I guess I'm fixed. And I continu to, had the thoughts in my head and it continued to, had just, just, you know, I was addicted, addicted to food at the time, and, and I couldn't stop eating. [00:36:00] And it eating made me feel better for about 10 minutes.

And until I got to a point where I was fired from that job. Um, and I deserved to be fired. I, I just wasn't doing the work. I wasn't coming at, I, I wasn't a good person or a good employee. Let me, let me rephrase that. I wasn't a good employee. Um, and, you know, I went to a new job who had a, and my, my leadership was different.

My leadership was empathetic. My leadership wanted me to succeed. And I ended up going, you know, calling e a P again and getting set up with an absolutely wonderful therapist. And, you know, I got to like the third, fourth, fifth session, you know, I was kind of looking around the room like, I guess this is gonna be it.

And, and I remember asking him like, okay, so when are we wrapping this up? And he had this look on his face, like, what, what are you talking about wrapping this up? I was like, oh, well, you know, I mean, The last time I got three, like, and he stopped me and he was like, [00:37:00] yeah, that's what e a p sets you up with.

You have health insurance and, and believe you believe me, like, we're gonna work on this until we, we get you in a good spot. And I cannot tell you like the relief I felt at that moment where I was like, holy, this person cares about me and this, this is gonna work. Like someone is out here and they, they want my story, they want to help me, they want to listen.

And I stayed with that therapist. Off and on for about eight years, where we went for about two years, took a year off, went for another two. And it was always kind of, we're re-upping. We're, we're coming back and we're just seeing how things are going. You know, at that time I had gone from, you know, not being married to being engaged, to be, you know, um, married to having kids, to having a house to move.

And it like, he was following my life trajectory [00:38:00] and wanting to just check up on me throughout my life. And he was the one who, who said the word depression out loud to me. Who said the word anxiety out loud to me and made it real. Cuz in my head I was just going through something. I was just figuring it out and, and I would, I'm gonna, and we hear this all the time, I'm just gonna man up.

I'm just gonna be a man about it. I'm gonna, and he was the one that kind of opened my eyes to. To tell me, mark, this is part of you. Like, there's no need to be ashamed of this part of you. You know, there's things that trigger you, there's things you have to cope with. There's anxieties that you have, but that's what makes you Mark.

And like to hear someone say that to me was like, so just refreshing. And like, someone told me I belonged here and it, it like, to that day, I, I, I, I email him every now and again just to see how he's doing and, and, [00:39:00] and catch up with him because he made such a valuable impact on my life. Well, there was that reason, right?

40% said, I'll learn to deal with it, right? Mm-hmm. That's, that's a go-to for a lot of us. It's like, I'll work through it. I'm good. I'll work it out. Right? Yep, yep. Exactly. Yep. I'll sleep it off. I'll, I'll, I'll put a bandaid on it. I'm good to go. Put me back in coach. And it's like, no, that's an, that's an acl, man.

You don't need a bandaid for that. So, I'll, I'll go burn out in the gym. That, that was always Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I, I'll go hit the, hit the hard heavy bag a few times or punch out some heavy reps and just, just work it all outta my system. Yeah. And I will say there is, there are some benefits to health.

In fact, we're gonna talk about that a little bit. Uh, that has always been something that's helped me was staying physically active. Now you actually went down the same path a little bit, right? You started trying to figure out your physical [00:40:00] training and mental, how you could combine your physical training and mental health.

Mm-hmm. Uh, how, how's, how does that work? So yeah. Throughout my, my adult life, um, you know, I was an athlete in high school and college and, and you know, people always told me to stay in shape, always had plans to stay in shape. And once the, the sports was over, I had no one there to kind of, you know, Help me stay accountable, um, make me, you know, responsible for my own health, whether that be mental or physical.

So as I get through my twenties and thirties, there's, I'm always working on one, I'm always in therapy, but not really paying attention to the waistline or the food I'm eating. Um, and then I get out of therapy and I say, you know what, I'm get back in shape and I'd go and, and I'd become a runner and I'd go to the gym, but I'd come home and I'd kind of leave it at that, where I wasn't focusing on can I be better mentally?

Can I work on my mental [00:41:00] health? And it would, yo-yo, it would, and I literally would. Go up and wait, and then go down and wait cuz I'd become addicted to the gym, addicted to a look. But I would be very upset if I didn't make that look or look like that. And then I'd just start eating poorly. And then I work on my mental health and work on journaling and mindfulness.

But the way, so I got to a point where about a year and a half ago where I said, well, I'm using a therapist for my mental health. I'm using someone outside of myself to help me cope. I should do the same thing for my physical health because I wanna learn the proper way to, to stay in shape and the food I should be eating.

And so I should have a coach for both. That's how I look at it. I look as a therapist, a coach for mental health, and I look as a personal trainer, a coach for my physical health. And I, I made, I, I took the chance and, and I got set up with an absolutely wonderful physical train, a [00:42:00] personal trainer, and. He started pushing me and started giving me advice and giving me the words I needed to stay physically fit.

And the encouragement part was the biggest part. And I started looking at, well, why can't I? Why can't I combine the the two of them? Why can't I use my mental health to stay accountable for my physical health and my physical health as stress relief? And Brent, I'm not even kidding. Something clicked overnight where I looked forward to going to the gym, and then I looked forward to going home and living my life because I knew I was prioritizing myself.

I knew by going to the gym, it wasn't anything for anyone else I know by going to my therapist, it wasn't anything for anybody else. Now I'm a [00:43:00] better. Friend, husband, father, dot, dot, dot. When I've gone for a run in the morning or when I've gone to the gym or after a therapy session. So in theory, if I'm taking care of myself and prioritizing myself, I'm a better friend and family member for everybody else.

And it just clicked. And I was like, this is, and of course you have those feelings in your head. Why didn't I do this years ago? But it's like, I'm doing it now, like I'm doing it now. And it just, it, I'm the best version of myself right now in my life. And I, I, I love that fact. I love it there. There's a lot of things I think we hit at points in our lives where it's like, intellectually, I know what I should be doing.

Right. I'm not right. But me, it's like intellectually, I, I know I shouldn't eat that bowl of ice cream. Mm-hmm. But I'm going to Yeah. Because I want it and, and it tastes good. I know tomorrow I'm not gonna [00:44:00] like the fact that I ate that bowl of ice cream. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna be unhappy about the choice. But in the moment it's like, mm.

Right now that sounds really good. Yeah. Right. We, we, we know those things. We know we should be taking care of our health. Mm-hmm. I don't, I don't know any guy who will tell you who's like, oh yeah, no, I should probably get, get back in the gym, or I should start exercising more, or I probably shouldn't eat that gas station burrito.

Yeah. I worked construction for a lot of years, man. I, I had a lot of crappy gas station. Mm-hmm. Deli food and Yep. Drinks on the way. Right. Just chug at Mountain Dew and grabbing a burrito at the deli in the gas station and. I knew that was bad. Right. I, I was a really healthy guy. I'd come outta the military.

Uh, I had always been an athlete. I knew that was bad for me. Mm-hmm. I, I knew that wasn't optimal. I also knew I was, that's what I was gonna do. Yeah. Right. We have this weird disconnect between our [00:45:00] conscious that knows, like, these are the choices I should make. Right. And our actions sometimes. Yes. I don't know why.

Do you have any theories on that? I, well, some, some, I, I know for me, I will say this, I, I, I constantly was misrepresenting discipline with motivation. So I always felt like I had to be motivated to do something. I would be motivated to eat healthy, be motivated to go to the gym and. I'll, I'm gonna tell you right now, and to all your listeners, like if you're looking for motivation to do the right thing, it's probably not gonna come.

And I, I hate to say it and I hate to throw it out there and I know there's some people out there like every day I wake up motivated to do great. Awesome. I appreciate you and, and a lot of us wish we were you. However, the sooner somebody realizes that discipline is the key, like yes. You can have that ice cream or that burrito now, but you [00:46:00] know, the discipline says, you know what, I'm hungry now.

I need to eat this. I didn't prepare. The discipline is says, after work today, I'm gonna go to the store and I'm gonna meal prep for the next three days. That's the discipline portion of it, which a lot of us don't have. We have to learn it. It has to be, you know, shown to us by coaches and nutritionists and personal trainers and mental health physicians.

That's the part where we don't have that gene in us, that d n a in us, that shows us that we don't have to be motivated to do the right thing. Like it's, it's, you know, every day. And we know the feeling because every day we wake up and we get our girls ready for school or I take them to soccer practice, or I prepare.

Food for the family, or I do the laundry. I clean. I'm not motivated to do those things. Like I'm not motivated every day to do a load of laundry or to get my, my girls' clothes are like half the size of me. Like it's so hard to fold them sometimes. Like I'm not [00:47:00] motivated to do that, but I have the discipline and understanding to know that I'm their father.

This is my duty to them. This is what I owe them. This is how I show them what, what decent human beings do. I'm disciplined enough to know that I have things to do each day, and I don't need that in. I don't need external internal motivation. I'm just, I, I think once people figure out those two words are not necessarily interconnected, they can live on their own.

Like, I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow morning and go to the gym at 5:00 AM I'm not always. Some days I wake up, the alarm goes off and I'm like, I am. I'm ready to kick this day butt. But. Some days I'm like, the alarm goes off and it's like, it'd be so nice to just get these next three hours, but I know that the girls have to get to school.

I have to do work, I have to run errands. I have to get them to soccer practice. I have to make dinner. I have to do, like, I know that the only time of the day that I can, I can have [00:48:00] me time, I can prioritize myself. So that's, I have that discipline now in my life. And yes, do I wish I had it 20 years ago? Of course I do.

I wish I had it 10 years ago. Yes, but I didn't. But I have it now, and I'm gonna use this discipline to be the best version of myself. I, I can't tell you how you're, you're talking about, you know, not that, that night before. Right. It's amazing how like the night before you're like, yeah, I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna have this awesome workout, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this.

And that alarm clock goes off and you're just like, Oh man. What, what was I thinking? I wa like, I woke up this morning, my neck's been out of place or something. I dunno what I did, but I woke up this morning and my neck didn't hurt for the first time, like a day and a half. Mm-hmm. And I'm laying there, my alarm just went off.

I'm like, but I'm comfy. And, and it didn't, I, I don't hurt right now. Like it's a major, [00:49:00] major pain. Mm. And for me it's like it taps into a trauma source. I broke my neck back in 2020. Ow. Um, I went down doing a yoke walk in a gym with 600 pounds on my shoulders and landed on the bar. Uh, God smiled on me and I can still walk, but Right.

It, it, there is some residual, like anytime my neck pops, I, I have a, a short term like PTSD kind of flashed of. Right. Um, So my neck hurting this morning. It's like I don't hurt at that same moment is I'm not scared because it doesn't hurt, because when it starts hurting like that, I'm like, oh god, right?

Mm-hmm. So yeah, you get those best laid plans night before that next day is like, if it wasn't the neck hurting, right? It'd be something else. Like, man, I don't get to stay cuddle with my wife very often. Yeah, you, you'll talk yourself out of anything. You will, [00:50:00] you already haven't planned. You already haven't planned in the back of your head.

Yeah, it's, it's there. Like guys, if this is clicking with you, you know, do the good social media thing. Give us thumbs up. Leave us review on Apple Podcast. More importantly, go share this conversation with somebody. All right? If you know somebody who would benefit from this conversation, and I tell you men, we all know somebody who will benefit from this conversation.

Go share it with somebody. That's the, that's the biggest gift you give us, is by helping somebody else with this conversation. So do that now, mark, what are three steps our listeners can start right now, today, after this show to start moving in a positive direction with their mental health? You know, there's, of course, there's so many things, like we could list in, in, you know, 10, 20, 30, whatever.

There's so many things you can do. But, but to simplify it, and I'll kind of tell you what I have done in my life is the [00:51:00] first step is just stop, walk away from that responsibility. And what I mean by that is, is a lot of it is based on our employment, our work. We have this feeling that the whole company's gonna burn down if we don't do this one specific thing that we have to do.

And if you walk away at four o'clock, 4 30, 5 o'clock, when you're supposed to get off, And you live with that anxiety for a while, you live with it, you understand it's gonna be there because listen, you're not gonna shut it down immediately. You're gonna, you know, hit the control, alt, delete, log off, and you're gonna go do something you want to do.

And when you walk into work the next day, you're gonna see that the company didn't burn down. No one's mad at you. Everybody is doing their own thing, and no one really worried about you getting your work done. And that's the first step to you kind of figuring out that everything's not centered around your [00:52:00] responsibilities.

Because when we talk about depression, we do talk about a very selfish disease, like we feel the world is staring at us constantly. So that's the first thing I, I, I did, I, I shut down when I was supposed to, and I lived in that moment until I came to work the next day. And I figured out that, Everything is still fine.

And then the second thing we can do is really, and we just kind of talked about this, is write down what you're eating. Focus on your nutrition for a while because that does play a part in how we feel and kind of reframe how you look at your meals and how you look at your food. And, and it's not just, you're not just eating.

You're actually fueling your body. Look at the macronutrients that you're, you know, that you're eating and make sure you get enough. Actually go to a website and put in your, your height and weight and see if you're getting enough proteins and carbohydrates and fats in your life and healthy fats and oils and things like that, because that's something we can do.

We're not this, it's not something that's Phil, [00:53:00] uh, philosophical or, Hey, go and, you know, write down something and feel better. Like, no, look at the foods that you're eating and if you're eating high fat, high salt, a lot of added sugars that's going to play on your mental state, especially the sugars, sugar is.

The same as a drug in your system, your, your brain will love it and then it'll go away and your brain will want more. So make sure you're focusing on your nutrition and, and get a nutritionist. And you don't have to pay a lot of money. Like just have someone look at your diet and, and, and, you know, kind of give you some, some tips on what you've been eating and, and not only what you're eating, but when you're eating.

And then the last thing I love to tell people, and, and this is kind of more of a philosophical one, and and, but it can be a tangible one, is prior, prior priorit, I can't even say it. Uh, pri prioritize yourself. And what I mean by that is what do you like to do? What makes you happy? [00:54:00] Like if you're like me and you enjoy, you know, being outside and going for a run and going to the gym and.

And, you know, you enjoy, you know, even things like playing video games or, or watching movies or things like that, we will push all of that stuff to the side and not do them. So take a a just a set of time, whether that's two days, three days, a weekend, a week, a month, whatever it is, and say for an hour, for two hours on these days, you're gonna do exactly what you want to do, prioritize yourself.

And once you start doing that and figuring out that you, yes, you do have the time for it. There's this thing that clicked in my head, which I started doing once I prioritized myself and I started treating myself like a friend. Cuz we will listen to others and we will take [00:55:00] in and we will be a great friend to other people.

We will do it in the heartbeat. But once we're. Once we make a mistake, we're really mean to ourselves. We're real. We beat ourselves up. We, we think of ourself as less than the people around us. So if we start prioritizing ourselves and doing stuff for ourself, we start to treat ourself like a friend. And that's such a huge component to this, because you're worth it, like you're worth your own time.

And then you'll realize this is the best part of this. You'll realize that some of the people in our lives haven't really been treating us as friends. You know, if we beat ourselves up so much, we allow others to do the same thing. However, if we start treating ourselves with respect and dignity and accountability, and being friendly and open and honest and validating our own feelings, we'll start to notice the people who do the same things for us and ourselves become smaller and smaller, [00:56:00] and we become happier with the quality of the conversation versus the quantity of it.

All right. Now, guys, if you actually care, the world's first game of ice hockey was played with a puck made from cow manure. Oh my goodness. Right? Those wonderful. I I purposely go and look for those random stupid questions. That is random. That is totally random. Mark, what is next for Mark Peasant? You know, I, I've, in the past year or so, I have, uh, become a, a certified personal trainer and nutritionist.

And I, I, I, and I'm working on getting my, um, transformation, um, uh, leadership. Training right now where I wanna help people really start to focus on themselves and become better versions of themselves. I really feel that a, a, a life isn't worth living unless I'm able to help others. That might sound cheesy and cliche, and I [00:57:00] understand if we wanna play the sappy music, I understand that.

However, like for me, I don't wanna keep anything in, like, I wanna make sure that I'm doing my part to help other men know that there's people like me in this world who want to help. There's people like you and me in this world who want to help, and it does mean no good if I gain this knowledge, whether I gain internally, externally, whatever it is, and I want, you know, to keep it to myself.

To me, that doesn't make any sense. So I'll continue with. Of course the podcast. I have my own relatively normal and I have the Fitness and Nutrition podcast with the 6:00 AM Run podcast. Um, coaching my daughters, uh, I now referee soccer because there was a shortage of those in, in the state of Georgia, I'm sure nationwide.

And, um, you know, making sure that I keep filling my cup as much as I pour it and I wanna make sure I'm available. And one of the reasons I wanted to work my mental health and [00:58:00] physical health is cause I wanna be around as long as I can for my kids. Like I got to a point where I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna be here that long.

And I wanna make sure that I get to see parts of their lives that they want me to be at. And so that's, that's what, and of course, day to day, that's it. Just day to day, waking up on the right side of the dirt, being the best version of myself and, and helping people be the best version of theirs. Where is the best place for people to find you, mark?

You can find me of course, on, um, Instagram over at relatively normal podcast or payant Fitness, LinkedIn. I'm there almost every day and you'll find, you won't really find what I do there, like you'll find my occupation. But I'm really about motivation and inspiration and making sure people have a place to go where they can say, Hey, somebody cares about me.

And you know, of course I do have, uh, Facebook and just go in and find either search for [00:59:00] relatively normal or Payant Fitness. Okay guys, as always, we'll have Mark's, links down in the show notes or in the description, whatever platform you're watching. They're listening to this on. So you can connect with Mark as well.

We wanna make sure you have that opportunity. Uh, Mark's got some great stuff going on. Mark, what is the most important takeaway you want people to hear today from this show? Self-care is not selfish. And if you think about everything that's important in your life, family, friends, your job, your hobbies, everything that you find important, there is one common denominator and it's you.

None of that stuff can happen. None of those things that make you happy happen without you. So reframe. Know that you are important and know that self-care is not selfish. Awesome guys. [01:00:00] Get a sense of community, right? Where whatever community that is, there's link to our private community in the notes as well.

And we'd love to have you over there at Fallible Nation. But surround yourself with community. You're, you're gonna, this, this comes so important to have the right men around you. Men who are gonna pick you up, like Mark men who are gonna encourage you and walk with you, who are gonna share that load. You don't have to go to long.

And please, please, please, if you feel like you're struggling with mental health at all, you probably are. Okay? There will be an emergency line down in the show notes. Reach out to Mark, reach out to me. Reach out to your closer community. Talk to somebody. Don't go alone. We need more men to be ready to step up and go, Hey, let's have this conversation because you matter.[01:01:00]

We think so, or we wouldn't be doing this episode. Go check out what Mark's got to offer. Guys, be better tomorrow because of what you do today and we'll see you on the next one. This has been the Fallible Man Podcast. Your home for everything, man, husband, and father. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show.

Head over to www.thefallibleman.com for more content and get your own fallible man here.