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Out of the Fog: Healing from Toxic Relationships for Men with Shannon Petrovich

After learning from her own toxic relationship, Shannon Petrovich takes an assertive approach to reclaiming her self-worth and healing her broken heart - while discovering the powerful tools needed to help others do the same.
"That you really should ...

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After learning from her own toxic relationship, Shannon Petrovich takes an assertive approach to reclaiming her self-worth and healing her broken heart - while discovering the powerful tools needed to help others do the same.

"That you really should be able to fully exist in a relationship. Your thoughts, feelings, wants, needs, aspirations, goals and dreams should be fully present in a relationship. If your partner is not empathic and passionate and caring about all those aspects of you that you are in a toxic relationship, you can get free and you can rebuild your sense of self and your connectedness and your life."

Shannon Petrovich is the author of Out of the Fog into the Clear and an expert on toxic relationships. She has worked with many men who have been in toxic relationships and has a lot of male clients who have come based on toxic relationships.

Shannon Petrovich had been a therapist for 35 years and wanted to share her knowledge with the world, so she started a YouTube channel. After fielding questions about toxic relationships, she realized she wanted to help people heal from them and wrote a book about it. With the help of Pod Match, Shannon has been able to talk to people from all over the world and share her story. She's passionate about helping people understand toxic relationships, especially men, as it can be hard for them to recognize the manipulation and control they are under. Shannon believes that journaling can help people notice how they talk to themselves, and ultimately heal from toxic relationships. She encourages people to recognize their thoughts and feelings, be assertive, and take ownership of their own self-care.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

 

1. Uncovering the effects of living in a toxic relationship and the strategies to heal from it.

2. Exploring the differences between overt and covert toxic behavior in relationships.

3. Examining the importance of establishing a healthy self-relationship to navigate toxic relationships.

 

The Mental Health Hotline is 988

 

Find Shannon at:

Website:

https://www.nofoggydays.com/

Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063840109321

Linkedin

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-petrovich-lcsw-lisac-bcd-658a317b/

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/therapisttalks/

Twitter:

https://twitter.com/ShannonPetrovi4

Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/c/TherapistTalks

 

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Transcript

1 00:00:00,150 --> 00:00:04,530 Shannon, what is the absolute most important takeaway you want people 2 00:00:04,530 --> 00:00:06,180 to hear from this show today? 3 00:00:06,180 --> 00:00:08,880 If they hear nothing else, what do you want them to hear? 4 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:14,100 That you really should be able to fully exist in a relationship. 5 00:00:14,969 --> 00:00:19,980 Your thoughts, feelings, wants, needs, aspirations, goals and dreams should 6 00:00:19,980 --> 00:00:22,360 be fully present in a relationship. 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,994 If your partner is not empathic, compassionate, and caring about 8 00:00:26,994 --> 00:00:30,774 all those aspects of you, then you are in a toxic relationship. 9 00:00:30,774 --> 00:00:34,494 You can get free and you can rebuild your sense of self and 10 00:00:34,494 --> 00:00:35,874 your connectedness and your. 11 00:00:38,004 --> 00:00:39,594 Here's the million dollar question. 12 00:00:40,074 --> 00:00:43,764 How do men like us reach our full potential and grow into the men we 13 00:00:43,764 --> 00:00:47,874 dream of being while taking care of our responsibilities, working, 14 00:00:48,054 --> 00:00:52,554 being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? 15 00:00:53,454 --> 00:00:55,134 That's the question in this podcast. 16 00:00:55,434 --> 00:00:56,754 We'll help you with those answers. 17 00:00:56,754 --> 00:00:59,454 My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. 18 00:01:00,129 --> 00:01:01,509 Welcome to Th Man Podcast. 19 00:01:01,509 --> 00:01:04,119 You're home for all things, man, husband, father, big shout out 20 00:01:04,149 --> 00:01:05,259 to Fallible Nation and warm. 21 00:01:05,259 --> 00:01:06,819 Welcome to our first time listeners. 22 00:01:07,119 --> 00:01:10,689 My name is Brent, and today my special guest is Shannon Petrovich. 23 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:16,569 Shannon is an author and Shannon is an expert in social work, and Shannon's 24 00:01:16,574 --> 00:01:20,139 gonna spend some time talking with us about her book out of the fog and 25 00:01:20,139 --> 00:01:24,879 into the clear as we dive into toxic relationships and what that looks 26 00:01:24,879 --> 00:01:26,229 like and how to get away from that. 27 00:01:26,589 --> 00:01:28,749 Shannon, welcome to the F Man Podcast. 28 00:01:29,514 --> 00:01:30,414 Thanks so much, Brent. 29 00:01:30,414 --> 00:01:31,954 I really appreciate you having me on. 30 00:01:31,976 --> 00:01:33,206 I'm grateful you're taking the time. 31 00:01:33,206 --> 00:01:36,071 Shannon, before we start diving deep, though, we gotta get to 32 00:01:36,076 --> 00:01:37,001 know each other a little bit. 33 00:01:37,001 --> 00:01:38,842 So here's a question to start the show. 34 00:01:39,562 --> 00:01:40,792 What is a Bombay duck? 35 00:01:41,602 --> 00:01:46,582 Is it a, a type of duck, B, a type of curry, C a type of 36 00:01:46,582 --> 00:01:48,412 drink, or D, a type of fish? 37 00:01:50,272 --> 00:01:51,172 A fish, a. 38 00:01:52,192 --> 00:01:52,552 Yeah. 39 00:01:52,792 --> 00:01:54,112 All right guys, you're gonna have to stick around. 40 00:01:54,112 --> 00:01:55,132 We'll see if she's right. 41 00:01:55,132 --> 00:01:58,222 I'm not gonna tell you until the end of the show, . You have 42 00:01:58,222 --> 00:01:59,152 time to stick with the answer. 43 00:01:59,152 --> 00:01:59,902 Change the answer. 44 00:02:00,412 --> 00:02:01,702 You let me know if you change. 45 00:02:02,512 --> 00:02:04,744 And who is Shannon Petrovich? 46 00:02:04,774 --> 00:02:07,474 I don't do big introductions because it just doesn't do people justice. 47 00:02:07,479 --> 00:02:08,254 So who are you now? 48 00:02:10,234 --> 00:02:15,094 Well, I've been a therapist for 35 years and I have about five years 49 00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:19,054 ago realized that I wanted to share with a bigger audience than just 50 00:02:19,054 --> 00:02:20,494 one person, one hour at a time. 51 00:02:20,494 --> 00:02:25,624 So I started a YouTube channel called Therapist Talks, and my goal was 52 00:02:25,624 --> 00:02:29,674 really to share all the information, strategies, ideas, thoughts, 53 00:02:29,674 --> 00:02:32,949 perspectives that I've gained over the years with all the millions 54 00:02:32,949 --> 00:02:34,559 of people in the whole world that. 55 00:02:35,064 --> 00:02:40,374 No access to therapy and no access, sadly, even to therapeutic information. 56 00:02:40,794 --> 00:02:47,814 And so in doing that, a lot of people were really gravitating towards and asking lots 57 00:02:47,814 --> 00:02:53,514 of questions about toxic relationships, specifically narcissistic relationships. 58 00:02:53,964 --> 00:02:57,577 So the more I fielded questions about that, and the more I 59 00:02:57,577 --> 00:03:01,110 created content around that the more focused I became, and. 60 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:05,283 About a year ago I realized that I really wanted to help people also 61 00:03:05,283 --> 00:03:11,043 get well and really grab hold of the ideas and strategies, and I couldn't 62 00:03:11,043 --> 00:03:13,233 do that justice in 10 minute videos. 63 00:03:13,233 --> 00:03:16,893 So I pulled together this book out of the fog into the clear. 64 00:03:17,283 --> 00:03:20,103 Journaling to help you heal from toxic relationships. 65 00:03:20,523 --> 00:03:26,043 And my goal was really to give people not just the perspectives and insights, but 66 00:03:26,043 --> 00:03:31,073 the tools to walk through a process from recognizing you're in a toxic relationship 67 00:03:31,073 --> 00:03:35,693 to actually taking care of it, taking care of yourself, setting boundaries, and 68 00:03:35,693 --> 00:03:40,343 then finally, really re reestablishing yourself and taking care of yourself. 69 00:03:42,173 --> 00:03:44,213 Shannon, what's one strange thing about. 70 00:03:46,808 --> 00:03:49,205 Oh, so many . Well, you can probably see in the background. 71 00:03:49,205 --> 00:03:54,155 I have a blonde 1955 standup bass, and I play bluegrass music, 72 00:03:55,145 --> 00:03:58,925 . Nice, nice big fan of standup bases. 73 00:03:59,105 --> 00:03:59,675 Love it. 74 00:04:00,515 --> 00:04:01,445 Amazing sound. 75 00:04:01,985 --> 00:04:04,745 What purchase of a hundred dollars or less did you make in the last year 76 00:04:04,745 --> 00:04:06,135 that had the biggest impact on your. 77 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,370 Probably this little microphone in front of me. 78 00:04:10,452 --> 00:04:15,612 You know, when I finished the book then it was sort of the, okay put it out there. 79 00:04:16,002 --> 00:04:19,809 And one of the things I kept reading was, you've gotta get on podcasts. 80 00:04:19,809 --> 00:04:24,431 And so I thought, oh, that's too daunting, . And then I found out 81 00:04:24,431 --> 00:04:25,931 that there was this thing called pod. 82 00:04:27,191 --> 00:04:32,771 Sort of like Tinder for podcast guests and hosts to be a little grotesque. 83 00:04:32,801 --> 00:04:37,129 But but it's a matching service and it has been so incredibly helpful 84 00:04:37,489 --> 00:04:40,865 and I've gotten dozens of of podcast. 85 00:04:40,934 --> 00:04:44,384 Opportunities and it's just amazing to me to be able to talk 86 00:04:44,384 --> 00:04:45,764 to people from all over the world. 87 00:04:46,154 --> 00:04:51,144 I've talked to hosts from South Africa, from Germany, from Nigeria 88 00:04:51,144 --> 00:04:54,806 all over the UK and certainly all over the US So it is just been 89 00:04:55,076 --> 00:04:56,786 amazing and it's changed my life. 90 00:04:57,446 --> 00:04:58,959 One little microphone goes a long way. 91 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:00,221 We're a big fan of Pod Match. 92 00:05:00,221 --> 00:05:01,241 Alex is a friend. 93 00:05:01,271 --> 00:05:03,671 I've been working with him since Pod Match was in beta. 94 00:05:03,671 --> 00:05:06,801 He recruited me out of LinkedIn, so Really? 95 00:05:06,851 --> 00:05:06,911 Wow. 96 00:05:06,911 --> 00:05:08,679 Yeah we're a big fan of the platform. 97 00:05:08,789 --> 00:05:09,279 Nice. 98 00:05:09,284 --> 00:05:12,519 And some, all his other platforms, he makes great software podcasters. 99 00:05:12,609 --> 00:05:16,989 So we actually, I was just yesterday, I was attending his quarterly 100 00:05:17,019 --> 00:05:18,879 podcast, virtual podcast convention. 101 00:05:19,099 --> 00:05:19,729 Oh, neat. 102 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:20,739 So called pod. 103 00:05:22,594 --> 00:05:23,502 called Pod Talks. 104 00:05:23,524 --> 00:05:24,394 He changed the name on me. 105 00:05:24,486 --> 00:05:25,561 It used to be called something else. 106 00:05:25,561 --> 00:05:28,618 This is the first time with it being POD talks, but yeah I was 107 00:05:28,623 --> 00:05:31,547 at pod talks Q1 yesterday, so. 108 00:05:31,547 --> 00:05:31,877 Nice. 109 00:05:32,147 --> 00:05:36,227 Shannon, before we dig in, what's something everyone should know about you? 110 00:05:38,927 --> 00:05:44,298 Well, that I come from a personal perspective, not only a academic and. 111 00:05:45,798 --> 00:05:47,148 Professional perspective. 112 00:05:47,508 --> 00:05:52,458 In my late teens before I headed off to college, I was in a toxic relationship 113 00:05:52,938 --> 00:05:58,458 and it was very, very hard to get free and get clear and to regroup for myself. 114 00:05:58,458 --> 00:06:02,617 And I think I've spent a lot of years accomplishing that and it. 115 00:06:03,472 --> 00:06:07,912 It's something that I am passionate about, is to help people understand themselves 116 00:06:07,912 --> 00:06:11,392 better and help them understand how to take care of themselves emotionally 117 00:06:11,662 --> 00:06:16,162 better so that they don't fall into those types of relationships and if they're 118 00:06:16,162 --> 00:06:18,452 in them, how to work themselves out. 119 00:06:20,002 --> 00:06:22,822 Guys, I wanna share with you our new sponsor, and then we'll be right 120 00:06:22,822 --> 00:06:25,792 back with more for Shannon, and we're gonna dig into toxic relationships. 121 00:06:25,822 --> 00:06:28,582 One thing I usually don't share is how impactful the podcast 122 00:06:28,582 --> 00:06:29,692 has been for me personally. 123 00:06:30,322 --> 00:06:33,322 There's a lot I love and appreciate because I have the podcast. 124 00:06:33,622 --> 00:06:35,872 I become somebody who can approach people easier. 125 00:06:35,902 --> 00:06:38,302 I have a better network of people to call upon when I need 'em. 126 00:06:38,752 --> 00:06:42,892 I get to meet new people all the time from all walks of life and all over the globe 127 00:06:43,192 --> 00:06:44,872 and connect with 'em at a deeper level. 128 00:06:45,502 --> 00:06:46,642 And I have a voice to do what I. 129 00:06:47,652 --> 00:06:51,282 I'm always put into situations where I'm having to stretch and learn something new. 130 00:06:51,612 --> 00:06:54,282 I've really grown as a person and a professional since I started doing 131 00:06:54,282 --> 00:06:58,152 my podcast, and that was even before my show really started growing. 132 00:06:59,082 --> 00:07:02,382 I hired a company called Grow Your Show, who's our sponsor, by the way, 133 00:07:02,982 --> 00:07:04,242 and I wanted to share them with you. 134 00:07:04,722 --> 00:07:07,422 The owner, Adam, has one of the very best podcasts for teaching 135 00:07:07,422 --> 00:07:08,832 you how to be a podcaster. 136 00:07:09,282 --> 00:07:10,452 I honestly wish I had found it. 137 00:07:11,587 --> 00:07:14,767 One thing that they've done to help me is to bring me to a much larger 138 00:07:14,767 --> 00:07:17,947 listener base so that my voice is being heard around the world. 139 00:07:18,427 --> 00:07:21,877 There's a good chance, in fact that they helped us connect, but they 140 00:07:21,877 --> 00:07:23,857 also do editing and post-production. 141 00:07:24,397 --> 00:07:27,757 They can even help you launch and start your podcast, which could 142 00:07:27,762 --> 00:07:30,847 really help you in your business or whatever you're trying to achieve. 143 00:07:31,747 --> 00:07:33,457 So I just wanted to give them a quick shout out. 144 00:07:33,547 --> 00:07:37,567 I love to share great people and companies that I believe in, that I use personally. 145 00:07:38,287 --> 00:07:40,987 So that's Grow Your show@growyourshow.com. 146 00:07:41,287 --> 00:07:44,707 I have a link in the show notes and if you have a podcast or you wanna start 147 00:07:44,707 --> 00:07:48,007 a podcast or you're thinking about it, just scroll down there, click that 148 00:07:48,007 --> 00:07:50,077 link and go work with my friend Adam. 149 00:07:50,257 --> 00:07:51,157 He's gonna treat you back. 150 00:07:51,157 --> 00:07:52,027 All right guys, welcome back. 151 00:07:52,104 --> 00:07:54,444 Be sure and check out our friends over your grow your Show. 152 00:07:54,449 --> 00:07:56,284 Adam will absolutely take care of you. 153 00:07:56,284 --> 00:07:59,482 I appreciate him not only as someone I do business with, but as a friend 154 00:07:59,482 --> 00:08:02,302 and I wouldn't share him with you if I didn't believe in this company. 155 00:08:03,262 --> 00:08:05,302 So right off the bat, Shannon. 156 00:08:06,112 --> 00:08:06,862 Throw this out there. 157 00:08:06,862 --> 00:08:10,552 True or false, men can be caught on the negative side of a toxic relationship. 158 00:08:11,917 --> 00:08:14,167 Absolutely true, absolutely true. 159 00:08:14,167 --> 00:08:20,002 I know of, and have worked with many men who have been in toxic relationships 160 00:08:20,272 --> 00:08:24,742 and in many ways it's harder for them to recognize that and get out because 161 00:08:24,772 --> 00:08:29,885 of the dynamic of not wanting to appear weak, of not wanting to appear that 162 00:08:30,355 --> 00:08:34,805 somebody's got one over on you and not wanting to recognize that you're being 163 00:08:34,805 --> 00:08:36,905 manipulated and controlled by someone. 164 00:08:37,265 --> 00:08:38,885 So I think it's extremely. 165 00:08:39,590 --> 00:08:45,417 Common and it's not well understood and it's I'm really not well talked about. 166 00:08:45,777 --> 00:08:50,007 I think it's one of, it's still a taboo subject almost because men 167 00:08:50,007 --> 00:08:51,627 just don't wanna admit those things. 168 00:08:51,627 --> 00:08:55,765 But I do have a lot of men that watch the the YouTube videos that 169 00:08:55,775 --> 00:08:57,415 I put out, ask good questions. 170 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,100 Come to the live streams. 171 00:08:59,550 --> 00:09:03,660 And also, I have a lot of male clients who have come based on toxic 172 00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:08,760 relationships, not only in childhood, but in marital and spousal and 173 00:09:08,765 --> 00:09:10,770 partner relationships of all sorts. 174 00:09:11,550 --> 00:09:11,820 Okay. 175 00:09:11,825 --> 00:09:15,810 Well I wanted to clear that up because men are often shamed exactly for what 176 00:09:15,810 --> 00:09:19,050 you were talking about, shamed and embarrassed to be seen as you know, in 177 00:09:19,050 --> 00:09:21,540 a toxic relationship or a pure victim. 178 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:26,230 Just like men who are abused in relationships tend to keep quiet 179 00:09:26,329 --> 00:09:27,769 and pretend it's not happening. 180 00:09:28,369 --> 00:09:33,052 So I wanted to just qualify that out there for our audience because 181 00:09:33,057 --> 00:09:34,792 this is absolutely a real thing. 182 00:09:35,692 --> 00:09:40,912 And so I, I want you guys to know, Shannon understands this is a real subject. 183 00:09:41,212 --> 00:09:43,372 This can be happening in your life. 184 00:09:43,912 --> 00:09:46,522 And so today we're here to help with some answers to that. 185 00:09:47,032 --> 00:09:50,692 Now, Shannon is the author of Out of the Fog into the. 186 00:09:52,057 --> 00:09:54,817 My camera's gonna play nice with me today. 187 00:09:55,117 --> 00:09:56,917 Sometimes it focuses, sometimes it doesn't. 188 00:09:57,517 --> 00:09:58,717 I don't think I have it on the right mode. 189 00:09:59,497 --> 00:10:00,457 Out of the fog in the clear. 190 00:10:00,462 --> 00:10:04,057 And guys, we'll have links, of course, for Shannon's book journaling to help 191 00:10:04,057 --> 00:10:06,367 you kill from a toxic relationship. 192 00:10:06,787 --> 00:10:09,187 Now, Shannon, in the beginning of the book, you talk about 193 00:10:09,187 --> 00:10:10,400 the fog and you described it. 194 00:10:10,460 --> 00:10:11,420 Oh, really? 195 00:10:11,420 --> 00:10:16,811 Like it, it was such a great, it's like, wow, that, that just Well, I'll 196 00:10:16,811 --> 00:10:17,855 just shut up and let you explain it. 197 00:10:17,858 --> 00:10:18,788 , what is the fog? 198 00:10:19,988 --> 00:10:24,608 So the fog is an acronym for fear, obligation and guilt. 199 00:10:25,178 --> 00:10:30,232 And when you're so I use it because I'm a lifelong sailor and it 200 00:10:30,232 --> 00:10:32,212 really worked for me as an analogy. 201 00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:34,072 So in the fog. 202 00:10:34,972 --> 00:10:41,422 In a sailboat, you feel completely disoriented, completely in terror really, 203 00:10:41,422 --> 00:10:45,592 because you don't know what's in front of you, what's coming at you, how to get 204 00:10:45,592 --> 00:10:48,292 through a channel into safe harbor, say. 205 00:10:48,802 --> 00:10:53,362 And what you have to do is recognize that you are helpless 206 00:10:53,482 --> 00:10:55,702 in terms of that of that fog. 207 00:10:55,732 --> 00:10:57,502 And you have to rely on your radar. 208 00:10:57,952 --> 00:11:01,132 So in on the radar screen, you've got these squiggly green lines. 209 00:11:02,257 --> 00:11:06,127 Only means something if you've studied and done your homework, but then you 210 00:11:06,127 --> 00:11:11,467 can see based on those facts, you can steer a clear path into safe harbor. 211 00:11:11,947 --> 00:11:16,117 What happens in the fog of a toxic relationship in that 212 00:11:16,117 --> 00:11:18,007 fear, obligation, and guilt? 213 00:11:18,457 --> 00:11:23,347 You've gotten sucked into this dynamic with someone and you have such. 214 00:11:24,627 --> 00:11:29,085 , you feel lost, you feel terrified often feel like you don't know 215 00:11:29,085 --> 00:11:31,155 which way's up, down, or sideways. 216 00:11:31,605 --> 00:11:36,435 And it's extremely difficult to see through the fog and get into safe 217 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,125 harbor, get out of this relationship or establish good boundaries. 218 00:11:40,755 --> 00:11:43,575 So we have to recognize that fear, how it started. 219 00:11:43,935 --> 00:11:47,835 That obligation that you got sucked into, and also the guilt 220 00:11:47,835 --> 00:11:49,558 that that person rides you with. 221 00:11:50,038 --> 00:11:54,049 So typically since we're talking to mostly men on your channel 222 00:11:54,120 --> 00:12:01,230 the, this is a generalization, but most male toxic partners are 223 00:12:01,230 --> 00:12:03,210 overt, is what we would call it. 224 00:12:03,330 --> 00:12:08,100 Meaning they're more the bully, more the rage, or more the sort of the out. 225 00:12:09,105 --> 00:12:15,638 Overt kind of, toxic, whereas women toxic partners are typically very covert. 226 00:12:16,238 --> 00:12:21,998 So if you think about a Navy SEAL operation, the covert is no less deadly 227 00:12:22,003 --> 00:12:28,238 than the overt right . If the soldiers are coming at you guns blazing, that's deadly. 228 00:12:28,238 --> 00:12:31,547 But if the seals are coming at you under better watch out. 229 00:12:32,282 --> 00:12:35,372 You're still dead and probably, you know, you didn't see it 230 00:12:35,372 --> 00:12:37,022 coming and more shocked about it. 231 00:12:37,442 --> 00:12:42,122 So if you think about the covert toxic person as being just as 232 00:12:42,122 --> 00:12:46,817 deadly, but you can't see it and so this is where I find a lot of men 233 00:12:46,817 --> 00:12:49,217 in relationships with toxic women. 234 00:12:50,107 --> 00:12:56,037 is that they are completely blindsided by how manipulated, how controlled and 235 00:12:56,037 --> 00:12:59,847 all this smorgasboard of manipulations that are getting thrown at them. 236 00:13:00,837 --> 00:13:03,657 So Shannon, that actually perfectly leads right into my next question 237 00:13:03,657 --> 00:13:08,977 is how can we start to identify that we're in this state in a relationship? 238 00:13:10,662 --> 00:13:14,802 I think that one of the most important things to recognize is that in a 239 00:13:14,802 --> 00:13:19,902 toxic relationship, the other person feels that they matter and you don't. 240 00:13:20,382 --> 00:13:23,802 So their feelings, their thoughts, their needs, their wants, matter, 241 00:13:23,952 --> 00:13:28,212 and your thoughts, feelings, needs, wants, goals, aspirations don't matter. 242 00:13:28,692 --> 00:13:30,402 And when you feel that sense of. 243 00:13:30,837 --> 00:13:31,347 Wow. 244 00:13:31,647 --> 00:13:36,177 How are they the only one that has any airspace in this relationship? 245 00:13:36,387 --> 00:13:42,267 That's a good indication if you're feeling fearful of their emotions, 246 00:13:42,272 --> 00:13:48,837 fearful of their eruptions or tantrums or act acting out behavior. 247 00:13:48,842 --> 00:13:50,817 And that can be suicidal threats. 248 00:13:51,117 --> 00:13:53,667 It can be just emotional hysteria. 249 00:13:54,117 --> 00:13:55,717 And again, this is kind of. 250 00:13:56,232 --> 00:14:01,002 Women tend to, in a generalization, women tend to be toxic as 251 00:14:01,002 --> 00:14:02,442 they tend to manipulate. 252 00:14:02,442 --> 00:14:07,302 They tend to control through histrionics, through drama, 253 00:14:07,302 --> 00:14:10,362 through even suicidal ideation. 254 00:14:10,722 --> 00:14:13,152 And so these are the things to watch out for. 255 00:14:13,392 --> 00:14:17,542 And if you're feeling controlled and if you're feeling manipulated, and if you're 256 00:14:17,547 --> 00:14:21,732 feeling like you don't matter, those are signs that you're in a toxic relationship. 257 00:14:22,872 --> 00:14:25,273 Now, Shannon you work with a lot of people. 258 00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:29,788 In, let's call them complex situations, shall we? 259 00:14:30,088 --> 00:14:30,478 Right? 260 00:14:30,568 --> 00:14:30,854 Yeah. 261 00:14:30,860 --> 00:14:34,805 It's this, is this something difficult to recognize as something 262 00:14:34,810 --> 00:14:36,485 difficult to admit to yourself? 263 00:14:37,145 --> 00:14:40,265 And it on a lot of levels, it can be very complicated to 264 00:14:40,265 --> 00:14:41,585 get out of that relationship. 265 00:14:42,410 --> 00:14:45,950 Why is journaling, what makes this the, a really effective 266 00:14:45,950 --> 00:14:48,560 medium to process a situation? 267 00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:51,322 You know, your book really leans into the journaling. 268 00:14:51,322 --> 00:14:54,382 I love that it has journaling segments, like, you know, work on journal on 269 00:14:54,382 --> 00:14:58,364 this thought, help people through why have you decided that's just one of the 270 00:14:58,364 --> 00:14:59,984 better mediums for dealing with this? 271 00:15:01,424 --> 00:15:04,524 I think journaling is a way we communi. 272 00:15:05,069 --> 00:15:09,419 Internally with ourselves, and we, and putting it on paper makes it 273 00:15:09,419 --> 00:15:12,749 more concrete than just talking to ourselves inside our own heads. 274 00:15:13,229 --> 00:15:17,553 So for me, it's always been a way of internally dialoguing with 275 00:15:17,558 --> 00:15:19,833 myself in a more outward way. 276 00:15:20,253 --> 00:15:24,843 So a lot of times people will journal and just vent, vent bent. 277 00:15:25,578 --> 00:15:29,298 Then it's really important to come back around with the healthier 278 00:15:29,298 --> 00:15:33,918 self and say, okay, yeah, but let's think this through more rationally. 279 00:15:33,978 --> 00:15:37,338 So the venting is sort of that irrational blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 280 00:15:37,878 --> 00:15:41,355 And then the rational self can come on board and say, okay, but Ace 281 00:15:41,505 --> 00:15:43,575 A, B, C, D, E, F, G are also true. 282 00:15:44,235 --> 00:15:47,055 So I think it, it can be really helpful in sorting things. 283 00:15:47,715 --> 00:15:50,535 And getting clear on what's irrational and what's rational. 284 00:15:50,925 --> 00:15:55,035 It's also helpful in terms of recognizing how we talk to ourselves 285 00:15:55,035 --> 00:15:58,365 inside our own heads, because most of us are not aware of that at all. 286 00:15:58,845 --> 00:16:02,535 And if we have a toxic relationship with ourselves, that's the first 287 00:16:02,535 --> 00:16:04,125 piece that has to be looked at. 288 00:16:04,575 --> 00:16:08,446 So in my very first section of journaling, I ask people to. 289 00:16:08,472 --> 00:16:12,062 Write out the way they talk to themselves when they are frustrated, 290 00:16:12,062 --> 00:16:16,870 when they have made a mistake, when they're you know, down for any reason. 291 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,983 And if you tend to beat yourself, merci mercilessly, if you tend to be harsh 292 00:16:23,043 --> 00:16:26,733 and critical and just merciless with. 293 00:16:27,683 --> 00:16:30,443 That's a toxic relationship within your own head. 294 00:16:30,893 --> 00:16:33,324 And if you think about it we talk to ourselves inside our 295 00:16:33,324 --> 00:16:35,274 heads about 40,000 times a day. 296 00:16:35,454 --> 00:16:37,714 I don't know who counted it, but , that's a really big number. 297 00:16:37,768 --> 00:16:39,759 Those are the it's a big number. 298 00:16:40,059 --> 00:16:43,899 And so if you had someone saying those mean nasty things to you 40,000 times 299 00:16:43,904 --> 00:16:45,939 a day, you'd be depressed and anxious. 300 00:16:46,329 --> 00:16:48,099 And that's what we're doing to ourselves. 301 00:16:48,099 --> 00:16:52,329 So we have to first take that out, look at it, figure out where it came from, 302 00:16:52,779 --> 00:16:55,209 and then walk through what's true. 303 00:16:55,594 --> 00:17:02,674 So, so those parts usually came about in early childhood or late adolescence, 304 00:17:02,674 --> 00:17:08,439 maybe it could be familial or it could be toxic environments, communities, 305 00:17:08,619 --> 00:17:13,119 friends, bullying situations, all kinds of reasons that we turn on 306 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,099 ourselves and become really toxic. 307 00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:18,980 When we can shift that into, okay, but what's true about me now? 308 00:17:19,930 --> 00:17:23,170 You can see that you're a good father, that you're a good husband, 309 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:27,145 that you have good values, that you have that you are a hard worker. 310 00:17:27,625 --> 00:17:31,855 And so those are the truths and these are the lies. 311 00:17:32,485 --> 00:17:35,515 And as you start to sort that out and then become more. 312 00:17:35,621 --> 00:17:39,582 Merciful and loving and forgiving towards yourself. 313 00:17:40,002 --> 00:17:43,182 Then you have a healthy relationship within yourself, and then you are 314 00:17:43,182 --> 00:17:47,022 set up to deal with the relationship outside of your own head. 315 00:17:48,402 --> 00:17:48,702 Now, 316 00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:51,837 I may be the odd man outfit, Jen. 317 00:17:51,837 --> 00:17:55,887 I feel like I know for me, for a long time, the idea of journaling was 318 00:17:55,887 --> 00:17:59,187 just like I, I had, I put no stock. 319 00:17:59,852 --> 00:18:02,762 I also didn't use to put any stock in like self-talk because I've 320 00:18:02,762 --> 00:18:04,682 always been like my biggest fan. 321 00:18:04,802 --> 00:18:06,962 Like I, I've got no problem when it comes to that. 322 00:18:06,962 --> 00:18:08,267 Like I, I cheer for myself. 323 00:18:08,267 --> 00:18:09,458 I'm my favorite person. 324 00:18:10,358 --> 00:18:10,688 Awesome. 325 00:18:11,097 --> 00:18:15,837 I feel, like I said, maybe I'm the odd one, but I think it, for me, for a long 326 00:18:15,842 --> 00:18:19,467 time I saw journaling as a more feminine. 327 00:18:19,547 --> 00:18:22,427 I don't wanna say trait cause not, but a more feminine habit. 328 00:18:22,427 --> 00:18:26,207 Like we grew up associating diaries with little girls and Right. 329 00:18:26,207 --> 00:18:28,415 You know, writing down your thoughts in these books that's something little 330 00:18:28,415 --> 00:18:33,488 girls do that's not necessarily . After talking to a couple journaling 331 00:18:33,488 --> 00:18:37,358 practitioners on the show, I'm starting to see that there's a lot 332 00:18:37,358 --> 00:18:40,508 more depth to it and a lot more value. 333 00:18:40,508 --> 00:18:44,108 I know my wife does some journaling, but you. 334 00:18:44,177 --> 00:18:47,567 What do you wanna say to men who have, you know, kind of a little 335 00:18:47,617 --> 00:18:48,790 about the idea of journaling? 336 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:50,140 Yeah. 337 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:52,810 You don't absolutely have to journal it out at all. 338 00:18:52,810 --> 00:18:57,820 You can take those journal journaling prompts and use them to think through 339 00:18:58,090 --> 00:18:59,260 the things that I'm talking about. 340 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:03,740 Because it's all about your healing and different people, different 341 00:19:03,740 --> 00:19:04,910 strokes for different folks. 342 00:19:04,915 --> 00:19:08,480 Everybody's gonna come at this differently, but it can be something 343 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,440 to use to talk to somebody about a dear friend or even bring to your 344 00:19:12,445 --> 00:19:14,780 therapist if you have access to therapy. 345 00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:15,558 It's. 346 00:19:16,148 --> 00:19:21,968 It's just a way to chunk this down so that you can heal those different 347 00:19:21,968 --> 00:19:25,088 aspects of you and where you're at. 348 00:19:25,088 --> 00:19:28,568 So it's really important to read through those. 349 00:19:28,658 --> 00:19:31,268 And whether you journal it out or not is Im material. 350 00:19:31,958 --> 00:19:33,209 And guys, let me encourage you. 351 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:34,919 I agree with Shannon a hundred percent. 352 00:19:34,949 --> 00:19:38,779 After talking to several journaling enthusiasts and people who talk about 353 00:19:38,779 --> 00:19:43,007 journaling, there is a lot of power out of getting it outta your head and on. 354 00:19:43,882 --> 00:19:49,042 Like, I didn't used to put stock in that, but I found like when a burst 355 00:19:49,042 --> 00:19:54,362 of creativity hits me, like I have to stop what I'm doing and do something 356 00:19:54,376 --> 00:19:57,521 it may not even be on my schedule for the day, just usually not. 357 00:19:58,091 --> 00:20:00,581 It's like, Nope, I have to stop all this and I have to get that out. 358 00:20:00,641 --> 00:20:00,851 Right. 359 00:20:00,851 --> 00:20:02,501 I have to get that creative energy out. 360 00:20:02,506 --> 00:20:08,720 There are times I have to just stop and write a show because I had this thought. 361 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,130 It's like, okay, I need to put it down on paper. 362 00:20:11,375 --> 00:20:15,185 I love where it's going, and if I wait a, it's not gonna be the same, and 363 00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:17,150 B it's gonna just like, nah, hit me. 364 00:20:17,180 --> 00:20:19,250 I need to get this down and make it real. 365 00:20:20,030 --> 00:20:22,981 So guys, let me encourage you, even if you're not a big journaling 366 00:20:22,981 --> 00:20:26,011 person, take bullet points, man. 367 00:20:26,016 --> 00:20:29,851 You don't even have to write, write sentences, , try some just bullet 368 00:20:29,851 --> 00:20:31,141 point your thoughts a little bit. 369 00:20:31,141 --> 00:20:34,942 Just get them down and out and give it a try. 370 00:20:34,994 --> 00:20:41,659 You might be, Shannon, how do we move to a self-care is okay mindset after we've been 371 00:20:41,659 --> 00:20:45,328 in this toxic relationship, but we might still be in that relationship or might be 372 00:20:45,328 --> 00:20:47,638 starting to get on the other side of it. 373 00:20:47,998 --> 00:20:51,223 How do we shift our mindset to go, you know what? 374 00:20:51,223 --> 00:20:52,915 It's okay to care about me. 375 00:20:53,395 --> 00:20:56,195 It's okay to worry about how I'm doing. 376 00:20:56,195 --> 00:20:57,291 How do we start to make that transit? 377 00:20:58,806 --> 00:21:03,725 Yes, that's a really critical transition and a lot of times especially 378 00:21:03,725 --> 00:21:05,345 men have a hard time with that. 379 00:21:05,555 --> 00:21:09,204 When they have been in this kind of relationship, they 380 00:21:09,204 --> 00:21:10,344 feel like they don't matter. 381 00:21:10,464 --> 00:21:14,484 They really do feel that way, and they may even feel like. 382 00:21:15,084 --> 00:21:19,044 I don't even know what my thoughts, feelings, wants, or needs are anymore 383 00:21:19,044 --> 00:21:23,544 because I've been so focused on this other person for this period of time. 384 00:21:23,964 --> 00:21:27,384 So what's really important, first and foremost, is to get clear on 385 00:21:27,384 --> 00:21:31,074 how you're treating yourself and then to begin to be your own best 386 00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:33,024 friend like you are, which is great. 387 00:21:33,384 --> 00:21:37,144 I don't meet many people that have that reality, which is wonderful. 388 00:21:37,144 --> 00:21:41,727 And then really, Beginning to take ownership of your own thoughts, 389 00:21:41,727 --> 00:21:42,927 feelings, wants, and needs. 390 00:21:43,227 --> 00:21:44,547 And here's what's really cool. 391 00:21:44,877 --> 00:21:49,347 Sometimes you have entered that relationship in kind of that 392 00:21:49,347 --> 00:21:53,694 placating, peacekeeping people pleasing mode, and now you're wanting 393 00:21:53,699 --> 00:21:56,574 to fully exist in that relationship. 394 00:21:56,639 --> 00:21:57,929 And when you. 395 00:21:58,989 --> 00:22:02,541 A a more ed approach that may be able to happen. 396 00:22:02,661 --> 00:22:06,291 Sometimes people have gotten into bad patterns that both 397 00:22:06,296 --> 00:22:07,731 of them don't want to be in. 398 00:22:08,181 --> 00:22:13,641 So if you can identify your thoughts and feelings and wants and needs and start to 399 00:22:13,641 --> 00:22:19,371 state those assertively, not aggressively, but a assertively, and that other person 400 00:22:19,371 --> 00:22:23,121 respects your boundaries and respects your thoughts and feelings and wants, and. 401 00:22:23,766 --> 00:22:24,456 that's awesome. 402 00:22:24,876 --> 00:22:28,656 Now you've moved into a growth stage in your relationship 403 00:22:29,046 --> 00:22:30,306 and there's potential there. 404 00:22:30,816 --> 00:22:36,824 If you do all of that and your partner escalates into drama and rage and 405 00:22:37,394 --> 00:22:42,609 implosion and explosion, then you know that's really a toxic relationship 406 00:22:42,849 --> 00:22:46,329 and that you're basically not allowed to exist in that relationship in a 407 00:22:46,329 --> 00:22:50,779 fully present way, and that's when you know that it's time to get. 408 00:22:51,834 --> 00:22:52,014 We've 409 00:22:52,014 --> 00:22:52,134 been 410 00:22:52,134 --> 00:22:55,164 getting to know Shannon and identifying if we're currently in a toxic 411 00:22:55,164 --> 00:22:58,554 relationship, some tools to help you recognize that or if you're coming out 412 00:22:58,554 --> 00:23:03,294 of one and a little bit into mindset change and a useful meaning for healing. 413 00:23:03,294 --> 00:23:06,601 When we talked about journaling in the second half of the show, we're 414 00:23:06,606 --> 00:23:11,011 going to start diving into some steps to heal from that toxic relationship. 415 00:23:11,671 --> 00:23:14,851 We're gonna roll over to a message from our friends at Ghost Bed and 416 00:23:14,851 --> 00:23:16,121 we'll be right back with we from. 417 00:23:16,936 --> 00:23:18,166 How well do you sleep at night? 418 00:23:18,286 --> 00:23:20,866 Do you toss and turn and wake up more tired than when you went to bed? 419 00:23:21,376 --> 00:23:24,046 Sleep is commonly one of the critical elements people 420 00:23:24,046 --> 00:23:25,366 fall short on in their life. 421 00:23:25,666 --> 00:23:28,516 The quality of sleep you get directly affects your ability to control 422 00:23:28,516 --> 00:23:31,936 your weight, your ability to add muscle, your stress levels, and your 423 00:23:31,936 --> 00:23:33,646 everyday job and life performance. 424 00:23:34,246 --> 00:23:36,586 If you're ready to move to the next level, then sleep. 425 00:23:37,096 --> 00:23:38,176 Has to be part of the plan. 426 00:23:38,806 --> 00:23:41,986 Check out our forensic ghost bed.com if you're ready to get your best sleep. 427 00:23:42,076 --> 00:23:42,976 I love my ghost bed. 428 00:23:42,976 --> 00:23:45,976 I've been sleeping on one for a couple years and has made a 429 00:23:45,981 --> 00:23:47,296 huge difference in how I sleep. 430 00:23:47,626 --> 00:23:51,436 Hit ghost bed.com and use the code, the Fallible Man 30 to get 30% 431 00:23:51,436 --> 00:23:54,676 off your order and start getting better night's Sleep tomorrow. 432 00:23:55,666 --> 00:23:57,646 Now let's go on to the show. 433 00:23:57,886 --> 00:23:58,426 Welcome back. 434 00:23:58,426 --> 00:24:01,426 We spent some time getting to know Shannon and identifying where 435 00:24:01,426 --> 00:24:02,656 we're at in our relationship. 436 00:24:02,656 --> 00:24:03,736 Is it a healthy relat? 437 00:24:04,561 --> 00:24:07,877 Or we maybe on the outside of one in recovery mode. 438 00:24:08,417 --> 00:24:11,987 We've talked a little bit about mindset changes and how journaling 439 00:24:11,987 --> 00:24:16,127 can be a useful medium for healing in the process with Shannon Petrovich. 440 00:24:16,517 --> 00:24:20,627 In this part of the show, we're gonna dig deep into solutions and action 441 00:24:20,627 --> 00:24:25,157 items to steps to really help you start to heal from a toxic relationship. 442 00:24:26,027 --> 00:24:29,596 Now, Shannon you built an acronym clear that you talk about in the second 443 00:24:29,601 --> 00:24:31,936 part of your book as a process to. 444 00:24:34,561 --> 00:24:36,331 Our post toxic relationship. 445 00:24:36,841 --> 00:24:38,761 Can you walk us through what these steps are? 446 00:24:40,861 --> 00:24:47,372 Yeah, so clear stands for clarity leaving emotionally as well as physically. 447 00:24:47,491 --> 00:24:47,701 Awareness. 448 00:24:48,231 --> 00:24:48,551 Awareness. 449 00:24:48,588 --> 00:24:49,068 Sorry. 450 00:24:50,718 --> 00:24:51,648 and rebuilding 451 00:24:51,725 --> 00:24:53,405 . I have my copy right here if you forget. 452 00:24:53,405 --> 00:24:53,765 It's okay. 453 00:24:54,765 --> 00:24:56,283 Sorry to stumble over that. 454 00:24:56,463 --> 00:24:56,643 No worries. 455 00:24:56,643 --> 00:25:00,162 So clarity is sort of going back to what I was talking about before. 456 00:25:00,167 --> 00:25:03,942 When we're in that fear, obligation, and guilt, we don't know which way is 457 00:25:04,182 --> 00:25:07,002 forward, backward, sideways, up, down. 458 00:25:07,422 --> 00:25:11,352 And we feel very lost and we have to look at our radar. 459 00:25:11,727 --> 00:25:14,517 And I call it in the book Radar Reality. 460 00:25:14,907 --> 00:25:17,667 So we have sort of these two parts of our brain. 461 00:25:17,997 --> 00:25:21,627 We have that amygdala, which is that little monkey mind that just knows 462 00:25:21,627 --> 00:25:23,637 fear fight, flight, and freeze. 463 00:25:23,637 --> 00:25:24,747 And that's all it can do. 464 00:25:24,747 --> 00:25:27,027 It just reacts and it's fight, flight or freeze. 465 00:25:27,477 --> 00:25:30,867 And then we have our wise mind, our cortex, our upper cortex, 466 00:25:31,227 --> 00:25:33,327 and that is our rational center. 467 00:25:33,747 --> 00:25:38,157 So when the monkey mine's going off and we're shooting adrenaline into our 468 00:25:38,157 --> 00:25:39,949 system and we're in that freak out mode. 469 00:25:40,018 --> 00:25:41,698 Our higher cortex is offline. 470 00:25:41,698 --> 00:25:46,707 I mean, if you think about whenever you're in adrenaline, You don't have 471 00:25:47,157 --> 00:25:48,717 rational thinking, you have reactivity. 472 00:25:49,107 --> 00:25:52,347 So we don't want to live our lives in reactivity. 473 00:25:52,647 --> 00:25:55,017 We don't wanna live in that fight, flight, or freeze mode. 474 00:25:55,197 --> 00:25:57,957 So we have to get that calmed down. 475 00:25:58,467 --> 00:26:00,237 And there's a lot of ways of doing that. 476 00:26:00,237 --> 00:26:02,487 Prayer and meditation are the primary ways. 477 00:26:02,493 --> 00:26:05,581 Self-talk, self calming, lots of different things like that. 478 00:26:05,586 --> 00:26:07,100 And I do talk about that in the book. 479 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,500 And then we have to take everything upstairs and look at things rationally. 480 00:26:12,860 --> 00:26:14,420 And that's the clarity. 481 00:26:14,810 --> 00:26:19,086 And in that way we see where the rocks are, where the where the channel is. 482 00:26:19,206 --> 00:26:21,006 And we can steer a clear course. 483 00:26:21,396 --> 00:26:26,166 So a lot of times people don't understand that you can still feel love for a person. 484 00:26:26,166 --> 00:26:29,796 You can still feel like you're attached to that person and you 485 00:26:29,801 --> 00:26:31,806 can rationally decide to leave. 486 00:26:32,436 --> 00:26:33,726 That's so critical. 487 00:26:33,726 --> 00:26:36,606 That is what I didn't know when I was a young person. 488 00:26:36,936 --> 00:26:37,296 What. 489 00:26:38,616 --> 00:26:44,016 Nobody ever told me I figured it out, and I really want to share that with people. 490 00:26:44,286 --> 00:26:46,416 You can still feel love for this person. 491 00:26:46,416 --> 00:26:48,156 You can still feel sorry for them. 492 00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:52,536 You can feel empathy for them and decide, this is really unhealthy. 493 00:26:52,806 --> 00:26:54,216 I can't do this anymore. 494 00:26:54,456 --> 00:26:57,726 Everybody's telling me this is toxic and I need to get out. 495 00:26:58,266 --> 00:27:02,826 So when you recognize that clarity and keep those rational thoughts in. 496 00:27:03,636 --> 00:27:09,186 Then you can leave emotionally as well as physically or sometimes only emotionally. 497 00:27:09,426 --> 00:27:14,663 So here's the, here's the cool thing too, that you can decide, this is really toxic. 498 00:27:15,203 --> 00:27:20,153 I'm going to, you know, get divorced, but I have to stay in relationship 499 00:27:20,153 --> 00:27:24,233 because I have kids and I have to co-parent with this person. 500 00:27:24,593 --> 00:27:25,643 So how do I do that? 501 00:27:26,063 --> 00:27:30,383 What's most important is that you emotionally, So that means emotionally 502 00:27:30,383 --> 00:27:32,693 stepping back and learning to watch. 503 00:27:33,578 --> 00:27:39,184 Watch the games, watch the manipulation, watch the drama, and watch the myriad 504 00:27:39,184 --> 00:27:42,064 of manipula manipulation strategies. 505 00:27:42,424 --> 00:27:46,504 So typically a person, it's almost like they have a smorgasboard in front of them. 506 00:27:46,894 --> 00:27:50,554 So they'll try the anger, and if that doesn't work, they'll go to tears. 507 00:27:50,554 --> 00:27:52,204 If that doesn't work, they'll go to guilt. 508 00:27:52,324 --> 00:27:54,304 If that doesn't work, they'll go to. 509 00:27:55,709 --> 00:27:58,589 Attack mode, you know, you're such a this or that. 510 00:27:59,139 --> 00:28:02,319 So there's just a myriad of different strategies. 511 00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:03,579 Then they'll gaslight you. 512 00:28:03,579 --> 00:28:04,539 I didn't do that. 513 00:28:04,539 --> 00:28:06,039 That's not how that happened. 514 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:12,210 And it's just so, there's so many of them that it's like whack-a-mole and you think, 515 00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:14,100 oh, well, okay, I understand that one. 516 00:28:14,490 --> 00:28:18,000 Now this one's popping up , and then whack that one back, you know? 517 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:24,020 So, It's very confusing and when you step back emotionally and look at it, 518 00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:25,760 and I call it watching the circus go by. 519 00:28:26,540 --> 00:28:29,870 So if you can step back and say, okay, there it goes again. 520 00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:30,200 Okay. 521 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,550 There's that behavior again. 522 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,240 Okay. 523 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,780 That's more manipulation and control and not get bought into it. 524 00:28:35,780 --> 00:28:37,490 Not get hooked by it. 525 00:28:38,180 --> 00:28:42,290 Then you're starting to mix some emotional progress of emotionally leaving. 526 00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:45,260 Some people need to physically leave too. 527 00:28:45,470 --> 00:28:46,130 Some people. 528 00:28:47,015 --> 00:28:51,065 Sometimes you can salvage a relationship enough by just emotionally leaving 529 00:28:51,065 --> 00:28:52,325 and setting good boundaries. 530 00:28:52,625 --> 00:28:55,685 Like I talked about before, when you set good boundaries and 531 00:28:55,685 --> 00:28:57,245 say, no, that's not gonna fly. 532 00:28:57,575 --> 00:28:57,905 No. 533 00:28:57,905 --> 00:29:00,875 When you start acting that way, I'm leaving, or I'm hanging 534 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,005 up the phone, or I'm whatever. 535 00:29:03,635 --> 00:29:07,625 Then you start to make, and if that person can respect those basic 536 00:29:07,625 --> 00:29:10,445 boundaries, then again you can. 537 00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:14,760 Just emotionally leave and you may be able to physically stay present. 538 00:29:14,828 --> 00:29:20,831 Then we need to grow our awareness of everything or educate ourselves and 539 00:29:20,934 --> 00:29:23,004 and then grow our awareness of that. 540 00:29:23,424 --> 00:29:28,404 And then the rebuilding process as many chapters at the end of my book, the 541 00:29:28,404 --> 00:29:31,074 rebuilding is very, very important. 542 00:29:31,584 --> 00:29:33,024 First, we have to rebuild our sense of. 543 00:29:33,579 --> 00:29:38,769 Because typically in a toxic relationship, we've lost our sense of self Again, 544 00:29:38,769 --> 00:29:40,539 that person may be telling you that you. 545 00:29:41,484 --> 00:29:44,212 You're a narcissist, you're a sociopath, you're a this, 546 00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:45,592 you're a, that you're whatever. 547 00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:47,220 You're mean, you're cruel. 548 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,970 And if you know that you're an empathic, caring person, you know that's not 549 00:29:50,970 --> 00:29:54,510 true in your wise mind, but your little monkey mind is going, oh my God. 550 00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:54,930 Oh my God. 551 00:29:54,930 --> 00:29:56,430 Oh my God, I'm a horrible person. 552 00:29:57,570 --> 00:30:02,700 . So you have to rebuild your sense of self, and that entails getting with people who 553 00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:04,500 care about you and understanding what. 554 00:30:05,125 --> 00:30:10,495 See in you so that you can then rebuild that sense of yourself from a character's 555 00:30:10,705 --> 00:30:13,675 qualities and a values based perspective. 556 00:30:14,275 --> 00:30:17,665 So our culture really stinks at this in our culture. 557 00:30:17,905 --> 00:30:24,613 You are your bank book, your job, your your likes on Facebook, your, all these 558 00:30:24,613 --> 00:30:27,073 things make up your sense of self. 559 00:30:28,128 --> 00:30:28,638 Wow. 560 00:30:28,848 --> 00:30:31,548 No wonder everybody in our world is anxious and depressed. 561 00:30:31,698 --> 00:30:34,578 You can't hang your sense of self on that stuff. 562 00:30:34,578 --> 00:30:37,185 It's superficial, it's fleeting, it's flighty. 563 00:30:37,665 --> 00:30:42,795 But a solid core sense of self means that I know who I am in a character 564 00:30:43,275 --> 00:30:45,855 qualities and values-based perspective. 565 00:30:46,395 --> 00:30:48,080 And when you have that in a solid. 566 00:30:49,005 --> 00:30:55,725 Internally anchored, then you have something solid to build yourself on. 567 00:30:56,355 --> 00:30:58,185 So that's a really important piece. 568 00:30:58,185 --> 00:31:02,325 And then we talk about rebuilding your connections and really 569 00:31:02,325 --> 00:31:03,495 rebuilding your whole life. 570 00:31:03,551 --> 00:31:03,731 I 571 00:31:03,731 --> 00:31:04,331 almost spoke. 572 00:31:04,691 --> 00:31:06,641 I feel bad cuz it's a very serious subject. 573 00:31:06,646 --> 00:31:08,651 I'm sitting here grinning ear to ear. 574 00:31:08,749 --> 00:31:11,869 You were talking about some of those manipulation traits and. 575 00:31:13,174 --> 00:31:16,804 I dated one or two of those before I met my wife, . But you started 576 00:31:16,804 --> 00:31:22,491 listening 'em and it, I mean, just exact order, this anger tear, right? 577 00:31:22,496 --> 00:31:24,741 It was like, yeah, there's a playbook. 578 00:31:24,741 --> 00:31:25,131 Okay. 579 00:31:25,131 --> 00:31:25,401 Right. 580 00:31:25,406 --> 00:31:28,331 This is . I was just recognizing this in some of my relationships before 581 00:31:28,331 --> 00:31:30,361 I met my wife and it's like, wow. 582 00:31:31,301 --> 00:31:33,222 So glad that didn't get more serious. 583 00:31:33,252 --> 00:31:33,952 Okay. 584 00:31:33,952 --> 00:31:36,659 I didn't even know what to call it back then, but Wow. 585 00:31:36,769 --> 00:31:41,509 So I, I always feel guilty cuz I'm sitting here smiling during a very serious subject 586 00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:43,189 and it's like, yeah, no, I remember that. 587 00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:46,364 Sh one of the things I wanted to touch on you talked about in awareness 588 00:31:47,324 --> 00:31:52,436 in your book and just the way you phrased it just really, really cut 589 00:31:52,436 --> 00:31:56,876 my attention because you talk about how when you hit that awareness, 590 00:31:56,936 --> 00:31:59,396 you start to almost breathe again. 591 00:31:59,396 --> 00:32:00,086 Like everything is. 592 00:32:01,076 --> 00:32:05,036 And you see the world in a whole new light and a whole difference. 593 00:32:05,154 --> 00:32:09,144 And there are a lot of people who, I think they're afraid that they're so 594 00:32:09,144 --> 00:32:15,564 damaged that they'll never see like, like life will be never be happy again. 595 00:32:15,564 --> 00:32:15,864 Right. 596 00:32:16,074 --> 00:32:16,944 We have a lot of fears. 597 00:32:17,094 --> 00:32:23,274 Like I always see it on stupid overdramatized shows or are in Instagram 598 00:32:23,274 --> 00:32:25,284 videos and crap like that on social media. 599 00:32:25,554 --> 00:32:27,144 It's like I'll never love again. 600 00:32:27,144 --> 00:32:27,294 Right. 601 00:32:27,294 --> 00:32:28,584 Those extreme. 602 00:32:29,969 --> 00:32:34,569 Reactions, there is hope for life again. 603 00:32:34,719 --> 00:32:35,019 Right? 604 00:32:35,019 --> 00:32:37,329 There is hope for healthy life again. 605 00:32:38,049 --> 00:32:39,729 Can you, can you talk about that a little bit? 606 00:32:40,644 --> 00:32:41,544 Absolutely. 607 00:32:41,569 --> 00:32:46,711 And I think it, it is a really important aspect of getting clear and getting 608 00:32:46,831 --> 00:32:52,231 well because if we don't believe that there's hope, then why would we try, 609 00:32:52,501 --> 00:32:57,061 why would we go through the fear and obligation and guilt and get clean and 610 00:32:57,061 --> 00:33:00,691 clear and get away from this person if life's never gonna be any better? 611 00:33:01,111 --> 00:33:02,804 And here's the trick the. 612 00:33:03,869 --> 00:33:07,589 The S smartest board of all those manipulation strategies hooks you 613 00:33:07,589 --> 00:33:09,779 into a trauma bond with that person. 614 00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:13,049 So you feel like you're in love, you feel like they're the only 615 00:33:13,049 --> 00:33:14,489 person in the world for you. 616 00:33:14,729 --> 00:33:17,219 You feel like if you leave this relationship, there's never 617 00:33:17,219 --> 00:33:18,419 gonna be anything else for you. 618 00:33:19,179 --> 00:33:24,115 and that's where people get permanently hooked and really in danger of never 619 00:33:24,115 --> 00:33:26,215 getting out, never getting free and clear. 620 00:33:26,575 --> 00:33:30,031 So trauma bonding is not an attachment is not love. 621 00:33:30,631 --> 00:33:32,101 And that's the important thing. 622 00:33:32,106 --> 00:33:37,170 If you don't feel loved, then you're not being loved . And 623 00:33:37,170 --> 00:33:38,608 I know that sounds simplistic. 624 00:33:38,634 --> 00:33:41,454 When we're attached and trauma bonded, we think we're in 625 00:33:41,454 --> 00:33:43,104 love, but we really are not. 626 00:33:43,314 --> 00:33:44,904 We're attached and we're trauma bonded. 627 00:33:45,444 --> 00:33:47,547 And the back and forth, it's the cycling. 628 00:33:47,552 --> 00:33:49,047 A lot of people don't understand this. 629 00:33:49,497 --> 00:33:54,687 It's not just the manipulation tactics, it's the cycling from love bombing. 630 00:33:55,077 --> 00:33:55,827 You're wonderful. 631 00:33:55,827 --> 00:34:00,747 I love you, blah, blah, blah, blah, into the tantrum, the 632 00:34:00,846 --> 00:34:03,246 The histrionics, all of that. 633 00:34:03,576 --> 00:34:07,866 And when that goes back and forth and back and forth, then you feel like you're 634 00:34:07,866 --> 00:34:12,336 living on those breadcrumbs of I love yous, and you're living on that little 635 00:34:12,418 --> 00:34:17,494 hook of I can make this better if I just don't do this and do more of that. 636 00:34:18,189 --> 00:34:22,050 you know, so these toxic people always say, well, if you hadn't said 637 00:34:22,050 --> 00:34:26,460 blah, blah, blah, I wouldn't have exploded if you hadn't done this. 638 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,870 I wouldn't have imploded. 639 00:34:28,410 --> 00:34:32,490 If you would just do more of that, I'd be happy and then we'd be fine. 640 00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:34,140 None of that's true. 641 00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:38,910 , the other person is fully responsible for their emotions. 642 00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:43,420 You are not, and this is a really hard thing for people to understand. 643 00:34:44,590 --> 00:34:49,540 Your emotions are your business and your responsibility and their emotions are 644 00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:51,430 their business and their responsibility. 645 00:34:51,820 --> 00:34:56,590 So when I mean, unless you are being abusive, their emotions 646 00:34:56,590 --> 00:34:57,850 are their responsibility. 647 00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:02,410 And when they're constantly hooking you with this love bombing and then devaluing 648 00:35:02,410 --> 00:35:07,557 you, telling you're doing it wrong and you are bad, wrong, blah, blah, blah, that 649 00:35:07,557 --> 00:35:10,467 is what hooks you into that belief that. 650 00:35:11,502 --> 00:35:12,822 Have to have this person. 651 00:35:12,822 --> 00:35:16,782 You have, you're living on these breadcrumbs of love and that you're 652 00:35:16,782 --> 00:35:20,652 no good and nobody else will love you any better or more than this person. 653 00:35:21,342 --> 00:35:22,392 So it's this. 654 00:35:22,482 --> 00:35:25,932 It's this tricky attachment trauma bond that people get hooked into 655 00:35:25,932 --> 00:35:28,932 that makes it really, really hard to get clear and get out. 656 00:35:28,932 --> 00:35:32,112 And when you step back emotionally and you have that awareness, 657 00:35:33,147 --> 00:35:34,557 Oh my gosh, this is not love. 658 00:35:34,557 --> 00:35:36,177 That's manipulation and control. 659 00:35:36,237 --> 00:35:37,347 100%. 660 00:35:38,067 --> 00:35:39,177 I don't need this. 661 00:35:39,237 --> 00:35:42,687 I would be better off alone for the rest of my life than in this 662 00:35:42,687 --> 00:35:47,127 relationship because it's literally killing me emotionally and physically. 663 00:35:47,457 --> 00:35:52,257 Because physically we can deteriorate because of this kind of toxicity 664 00:35:52,257 --> 00:35:54,237 constantly flowing through our brain. 665 00:35:55,077 --> 00:35:57,245 And I and I am worth more. 666 00:35:57,365 --> 00:36:03,725 My character qualities and my values are really, Something that I love and respect 667 00:36:03,725 --> 00:36:08,675 in myself, and then I need to walk through getting clean and clear and getting out. 668 00:36:11,285 --> 00:36:11,435 No, 669 00:36:11,502 --> 00:36:11,975 I love it. 670 00:36:12,037 --> 00:36:14,070 It's a complicated subject for sure. 671 00:36:14,070 --> 00:36:19,992 It's kind of hard cuz like, do, do I really wanna, I know a lot of people 672 00:36:19,992 --> 00:36:21,361 who are just as afraid of being. 673 00:36:21,429 --> 00:36:23,185 As being in a bad relationship. 674 00:36:23,905 --> 00:36:27,992 So it's interesting insights, but I do love that concept of like that 675 00:36:28,742 --> 00:36:31,682 fresh breath in line, like you're breathing for the first time and 676 00:36:31,682 --> 00:36:34,082 seeing the world in a whole new color. 677 00:36:34,802 --> 00:36:35,642 Guys, it's there. 678 00:36:36,532 --> 00:36:38,282 It's not outside your grasp. 679 00:36:38,762 --> 00:36:40,862 Now, if you're getting something out of this, be sure to do all 680 00:36:40,862 --> 00:36:42,272 the good social media nonsense. 681 00:36:42,332 --> 00:36:44,072 Click the button, hit the like thing. 682 00:36:44,492 --> 00:36:47,162 Leave us review on Apple Podcast more importantly. 683 00:36:48,287 --> 00:36:51,347 Share this with a friend who needs it, okay? 684 00:36:51,347 --> 00:36:54,377 That's the best thing you can do, not only for us, but for your friend. 685 00:36:55,007 --> 00:36:55,667 Share this. 686 00:36:55,667 --> 00:36:58,787 If you're listening to this and you know somebody who this could 687 00:36:58,787 --> 00:37:01,097 help, please share this with them. 688 00:37:01,247 --> 00:37:05,267 That is what we want, is we want to help people and encourage people, 689 00:37:05,272 --> 00:37:07,457 and this may be what breaks through. 690 00:37:08,207 --> 00:37:10,547 Now, Shannon, you talk about the fog, right? 691 00:37:10,547 --> 00:37:13,337 And the fear, obligation and guilt, I think for men. 692 00:37:14,207 --> 00:37:18,557 One of the worst things that keeps us in these relationships is we feel that 693 00:37:18,557 --> 00:37:22,607 obligation and guilt in particular, not so much the fear, unless it's the 694 00:37:22,607 --> 00:37:26,927 fear of how people are gonna perceive us if we break from this relationship. 695 00:37:27,857 --> 00:37:29,207 But for men, right? 696 00:37:29,267 --> 00:37:31,997 Obligation is a big thing that's just thrilled into our head. 697 00:37:31,997 --> 00:37:36,587 Responsibility, obligation, and the idea of breaking from that 698 00:37:36,587 --> 00:37:38,837 can be very devastating for us. 699 00:37:39,587 --> 00:37:41,491 Can you talk about there's a difference between. 700 00:37:42,481 --> 00:37:46,321 Abandoning your responsibilities versus protecting yourself. 701 00:37:48,181 --> 00:37:48,511 Right. 702 00:37:48,511 --> 00:37:52,969 And I think that's such a good question Brent, because men do really get hung 703 00:37:52,974 --> 00:37:57,709 up on this, and you can take care of your responsibilities without. 704 00:37:57,776 --> 00:38:01,084 Basically getting soul murdered by this person. 705 00:38:01,384 --> 00:38:05,344 And that means that you get clear about what's going on and 706 00:38:05,344 --> 00:38:06,844 then you emotionally step back. 707 00:38:07,084 --> 00:38:11,194 And again, you may be able to stay present physically in that relationship, 708 00:38:11,194 --> 00:38:15,424 but be emotionally taking better care of yourself and walking away when the 709 00:38:15,424 --> 00:38:20,072 explosions and implosions happen, or hanging up the phone or leaving, or 710 00:38:20,072 --> 00:38:22,282 even telling that person that you. 711 00:38:23,057 --> 00:38:24,227 Pack that way anymore. 712 00:38:24,227 --> 00:38:29,084 And we need to separate when those things are happening and you are obligated to 713 00:38:29,084 --> 00:38:33,254 take care of yourself and your kids if you have kids, but you're not obligated 714 00:38:33,254 --> 00:38:35,324 to take care of another person's emotions. 715 00:38:35,684 --> 00:38:40,214 You can't, you know, that person is not an, and that person is not as 716 00:38:40,214 --> 00:38:42,044 emotionally fragile as you think they are. 717 00:38:42,644 --> 00:38:46,994 A lot of times that person is using those things to. 718 00:38:47,714 --> 00:38:53,530 Be dramatic to tantrum, to try to get you to behave the way they want you to behave. 719 00:38:53,530 --> 00:38:55,240 So it's manipulation and control. 720 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,140 100%. 721 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,634 You know, I've worked with a lot of people and I even have a lot of people who have 722 00:39:00,694 --> 00:39:03,429 adult children or parents who are toxic. 723 00:39:03,999 --> 00:39:05,694 And you know, there, there's. 724 00:39:06,554 --> 00:39:09,884 Many situations where a couple will say, well, that per, 725 00:39:09,914 --> 00:39:11,174 they're just outta control. 726 00:39:11,174 --> 00:39:12,674 They're completely outta control. 727 00:39:12,674 --> 00:39:14,834 And I'll say, well, what happened when you called the sheriff? 728 00:39:15,404 --> 00:39:19,034 Well, well, she settled down and she talked to the sheriff 729 00:39:19,034 --> 00:39:20,144 like nothing was wrong. 730 00:39:20,144 --> 00:39:22,424 I said, and what happened after the sheriff left? 731 00:39:22,784 --> 00:39:25,404 Well, she escalated again cuz we triggered her again. 732 00:39:26,214 --> 00:39:30,204 You didn't do anything , she just showed you. 733 00:39:30,414 --> 00:39:32,244 She is fully in control. 734 00:39:32,484 --> 00:39:34,014 She's not being triggered. 735 00:39:34,284 --> 00:39:35,184 She is. 736 00:39:35,559 --> 00:39:40,149 Bullying you with her drama, with her tantrums, with her histrionics. 737 00:39:40,329 --> 00:39:45,099 She is full on bullying you with that and the suicidal stuff. 738 00:39:45,099 --> 00:39:49,389 And all of it is just a really escalated version of bullying. 739 00:39:50,799 --> 00:39:50,889 And 740 00:39:50,889 --> 00:39:57,166 guys, you know, we're big believers in marriage till death to his part, and we 741 00:39:57,166 --> 00:40:01,786 would never encourage you to seek out of a relationship, especially if you have 742 00:40:01,786 --> 00:40:02,896 children that you need to take care. 743 00:40:03,721 --> 00:40:07,291 But you do have to be able to take care of yourself, okay? 744 00:40:07,561 --> 00:40:13,381 You are not saving your kids or protecting your children if you are 745 00:40:13,651 --> 00:40:18,271 beat down and unable to function as a healthy individual, okay? 746 00:40:18,276 --> 00:40:21,781 In fact, you're actually setting them up for failure because they're impro 747 00:40:22,081 --> 00:40:24,031 imprinting that this is how life works. 748 00:40:24,931 --> 00:40:25,351 Okay? 749 00:40:26,506 --> 00:40:27,136 That's right. 750 00:40:27,136 --> 00:40:32,086 And ki you know, kids act on what they see and that's a really tragic truth. 751 00:40:32,536 --> 00:40:37,816 But typically kids from a family where this is going, this kind of thing is going 752 00:40:37,816 --> 00:40:39,916 on, this kind of dynamic is going on. 753 00:40:40,366 --> 00:40:42,346 They will fall into one of two camps. 754 00:40:42,346 --> 00:40:46,036 They will either be a bully or they will be the placate 755 00:40:46,036 --> 00:40:48,376 peacekeeper in their relationship. 756 00:40:48,376 --> 00:40:52,066 So you have to recognize what you're modeling for your kids, and 757 00:40:52,066 --> 00:40:55,426 you have to learn to be assertive, not aggressive, but assertive. 758 00:40:55,921 --> 00:41:00,541 Again, in, in asserting your boundaries, your thoughts, feelings, wants and needs. 759 00:41:00,601 --> 00:41:06,046 And in separating from those histrionics and those bullying 760 00:41:06,046 --> 00:41:09,766 tactics and manipulations, and I've seen men who are so. 761 00:41:09,813 --> 00:41:14,445 Distraught by some of these a actions and toxic relationships that 762 00:41:14,445 --> 00:41:18,719 they literally have gone into the hospital with with serious medical 763 00:41:18,724 --> 00:41:21,779 issues that were all stress related. 764 00:41:22,169 --> 00:41:26,969 So you're, you could be abandoning your kids literally, if by 765 00:41:26,969 --> 00:41:28,619 not taking care of yourself. 766 00:41:28,649 --> 00:41:29,729 It's so crucial. 767 00:41:30,059 --> 00:41:34,049 Don't forget you are obligated to your children. 768 00:41:34,859 --> 00:41:37,649 To set the example that they need to follow. 769 00:41:38,099 --> 00:41:40,079 That is, that's one of those obligations guys. 770 00:41:40,469 --> 00:41:45,419 We are obligated to take care of ourselves because we have to set the 771 00:41:45,419 --> 00:41:50,729 example for our young children because they're gonna follow what you do. 772 00:41:51,509 --> 00:41:53,669 So look at that obligation as well. 773 00:41:54,869 --> 00:41:59,939 Now, is there a right way or a wrong way to journal as we 774 00:41:59,939 --> 00:42:01,029 try and walk through this situ. 775 00:42:01,529 --> 00:42:06,149 I think if you get stuck in the negative, that would be a wrong way. 776 00:42:06,689 --> 00:42:11,549 So sometimes people will journal and all they're doing is just reventing and 777 00:42:11,549 --> 00:42:18,719 reventing and being really stuck in the past and really stuck in the negative and. 778 00:42:19,499 --> 00:42:23,939 In my book, I walk through from A to B to C to D, all the way to Z. 779 00:42:24,329 --> 00:42:28,709 And it's really important that you not just get stuck on A or stuck on 780 00:42:28,714 --> 00:42:31,049 B, but work through the whole thing. 781 00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:36,487 Because otherwise I've definitely seen this and you know, therapists in the past, 782 00:42:36,487 --> 00:42:40,987 I think, you know, mostly in the eighties were sort of that just being present with 783 00:42:40,987 --> 00:42:45,757 people and never giving them any idea of how to move past where they are right now. 784 00:42:46,147 --> 00:42:48,217 And to me that was tragic time was. 785 00:42:49,492 --> 00:42:54,313 I'm very much a let's get growing kind of thing type of therapist. 786 00:42:54,313 --> 00:42:58,903 You know, I'm not one of those who's wants to sit around and say, I hear 787 00:42:58,903 --> 00:43:01,453 your feelings, . Like, let's get busy. 788 00:43:01,453 --> 00:43:02,533 Let's get on with it. 789 00:43:02,593 --> 00:43:08,526 And so the journaling is something that I encourage in my practice, but, Probably 790 00:43:08,726 --> 00:43:13,166 half of the people don't do it and they think it through and they talk it 791 00:43:13,166 --> 00:43:14,636 through with me and that sort of thing. 792 00:43:14,636 --> 00:43:16,316 And that, like I said, is fine. 793 00:43:16,339 --> 00:43:19,639 But you can get a lot out of journaling and if you don't have access to 794 00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:21,461 a therapist it can be a way to. 795 00:43:21,541 --> 00:43:26,131 To work this through yourself and really get clarity and really learn 796 00:43:26,131 --> 00:43:30,331 to step back emotionally and set those boundaries and watch the circus 797 00:43:30,331 --> 00:43:32,291 go by and not get hooked into it. 798 00:43:32,291 --> 00:43:37,294 And stay in your rational mind rather than being in that monkey mind that 799 00:43:37,294 --> 00:43:39,244 just wants to fight, flight, or freeze. 800 00:43:40,084 --> 00:43:44,134 So what I'm hearing is as we process this, there's not necessarily a 801 00:43:44,139 --> 00:43:47,845 right or wrong way to journal or to process through, but the big. 802 00:43:48,575 --> 00:43:50,375 Don't get hung up on one spot. 803 00:43:50,765 --> 00:43:52,595 Don't just sit there and emotionally dump. 804 00:43:53,045 --> 00:43:54,605 Don't get hung up on just a negative. 805 00:43:54,995 --> 00:43:57,875 You actually have to proceed whether you're journaling or 806 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,875 whether you're talking to a friend or a therapist about issues. 807 00:44:02,105 --> 00:44:04,265 Don't get hung up in one spot. 808 00:44:05,255 --> 00:44:05,955 Go through the process exactly. 809 00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:08,510 Yeah, exactly. 810 00:44:08,510 --> 00:44:12,110 And that, you know, that's kind of something that has happened to 811 00:44:12,110 --> 00:44:16,040 a lot of people in the past, even in therapy as they just get hung 812 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,890 up on childhood, for instance. 813 00:44:19,220 --> 00:44:25,070 And oh, I had such a mis miserable childhood, and I absolutely feel 814 00:44:25,220 --> 00:44:29,776 that and understand that and work on that kind of thing with people. 815 00:44:30,106 --> 00:44:31,966 And yet we can't stay stuck there. 816 00:44:32,176 --> 00:44:33,016 You survive. 817 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,449 And you know, a lot of times, even in that first session that I have with 818 00:44:37,449 --> 00:44:43,329 somebody, I'll talk with them about how isn't it a miracle that you survived? 819 00:44:43,449 --> 00:44:46,089 And look at what a good man you are and good father, and good 820 00:44:46,089 --> 00:44:50,139 husband and good provider, even though what you grew up with. 821 00:44:50,139 --> 00:44:52,969 Wasn't that at all, like what a miracle. 822 00:44:52,984 --> 00:44:54,544 Who you are is a miracle. 823 00:44:54,904 --> 00:45:00,274 And so really focusing on that as who you are in your character qualities and 824 00:45:00,274 --> 00:45:05,554 your values, and not getting stuck in the past of what you were told as a kid. 825 00:45:06,214 --> 00:45:09,244 You are useless or worthless or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 826 00:45:10,544 --> 00:45:15,904 Shannon, what are the first three steps our listeners can implement 827 00:45:15,904 --> 00:45:19,594 right now to start healing if they've realized that they're either in a 828 00:45:19,594 --> 00:45:21,694 relationship right now that is toxic for. 829 00:45:22,894 --> 00:45:24,394 Guys, this can be friendships too. 830 00:45:24,484 --> 00:45:26,025 Okay, let me clarify this a little bit. 831 00:45:26,025 --> 00:45:27,855 We're not just talking about marriages, we're not just talking 832 00:45:27,855 --> 00:45:29,175 about romantic relationships. 833 00:45:29,715 --> 00:45:31,905 You can have toxic friends like this too. 834 00:45:32,535 --> 00:45:37,820 So what are three steps if we go, oh man, I'm either here or I'm just on the 835 00:45:37,820 --> 00:45:41,810 verge of getting out of that, that we can start walking outta this podcast. 836 00:45:42,290 --> 00:45:42,950 Where do we start? 837 00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:43,880 Three steps. 838 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,380 I think the first step would be checking in on what is your 839 00:45:48,380 --> 00:45:49,770 relationship with yourself? 840 00:45:49,970 --> 00:45:53,600 How are you talking to yourself inside your own head, and where did 841 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,310 that come from and how did that, how can you switch that into how 842 00:45:58,310 --> 00:46:01,220 you would talk to a friend if your friend's going through a hard time? 843 00:46:01,220 --> 00:46:03,020 You don't beat him up emotionally. 844 00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:04,570 You don't tell him me, he is abusive. 845 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,480 Crap emotion, you know, like you don't do that. 846 00:46:07,810 --> 00:46:10,690 So treat yourself the way you would treat your own best friend. 847 00:46:11,140 --> 00:46:16,093 Secondly looking at stepping back and taking a radar, reality 848 00:46:17,103 --> 00:46:18,730 snapshot of this relationship. 849 00:46:18,783 --> 00:46:22,836 And if you are having a hard time with that, Ask your friends and family 850 00:46:23,076 --> 00:46:27,066 because likely they have a lot to say and you haven't been listening. 851 00:46:27,426 --> 00:46:32,346 Because once you get involved, it's hard to pull away and look at it differently. 852 00:46:32,346 --> 00:46:36,486 So ask for help if you need it, and then write all that stuff down. 853 00:46:36,846 --> 00:46:40,228 Write down all the crisis points, the episodes the drama. 854 00:46:41,293 --> 00:46:43,543 Ask yourself if you actually feel loved. 855 00:46:43,693 --> 00:46:47,713 Not if you feel loved for that person, because you might you, but it's mostly 856 00:46:47,713 --> 00:46:51,823 if your obligation and guilt, and it's attachment and it's trauma bonding. 857 00:46:52,273 --> 00:46:57,902 So ask yourself and ask others what is the reality of this relationship? 858 00:46:57,902 --> 00:47:00,392 And write it out so that you don't lose track of it. 859 00:47:00,872 --> 00:47:05,942 And then third, let yourself know for sure and for real, that there is 860 00:47:05,942 --> 00:47:08,102 life beyond this and that you will. 861 00:47:08,867 --> 00:47:12,538 You take yourself with you wherever you go, and if you've recognized that 862 00:47:12,543 --> 00:47:17,627 you have some really great character qualities and values, then you know that 863 00:47:17,627 --> 00:47:22,637 when you leave this relationship, either emotionally or physically, both, that 864 00:47:22,642 --> 00:47:28,607 you have yourself on board and you can move on into a happier, healthier life. 865 00:47:29,567 --> 00:47:29,657 All 866 00:47:29,657 --> 00:47:31,997 right, Shannon, what is. 867 00:47:33,287 --> 00:47:34,577 Absolute most important takeaway. 868 00:47:34,577 --> 00:47:36,827 You want people to hear from this show today. 869 00:47:36,827 --> 00:47:39,497 If they hear nothing else, what do you want them to hear? 870 00:47:41,117 --> 00:47:45,057 That you really should be able to fully exist in a relationship. 871 00:47:45,602 --> 00:47:50,642 Your thoughts, feelings, wants, needs, aspirations, goals and dreams should 872 00:47:50,642 --> 00:47:52,965 be fully present in a relationship. 873 00:47:52,965 --> 00:47:57,630 If your partner is not empathic, compassionate, and caring about 874 00:47:57,630 --> 00:48:01,380 all those aspects of you, then you are in a toxic relationship. 875 00:48:01,380 --> 00:48:05,100 You can get free and you can rebuild your sense of self and 876 00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:06,930 your connectedness and your life. 877 00:48:08,070 --> 00:48:08,340 What's 878 00:48:08,340 --> 00:48:09,330 next for Shannon? 879 00:48:09,383 --> 00:48:09,983 Goodness. 880 00:48:09,983 --> 00:48:10,553 I don't know. 881 00:48:10,553 --> 00:48:12,323 People ask me, when's your next book? 882 00:48:12,323 --> 00:48:13,493 I'm like, holy smokes. 883 00:48:13,523 --> 00:48:14,223 It was so hard. 884 00:48:14,269 --> 00:48:16,609 . I, people don't realize how hard work it is, but yeah. 885 00:48:16,969 --> 00:48:21,734 But no, sometimes a thought will come to mind about self-care workshops 886 00:48:21,738 --> 00:48:23,830 and a book a all about self-care. 887 00:48:23,832 --> 00:48:28,088 We really have such a messed up vision about that, and I think 888 00:48:28,088 --> 00:48:29,768 I may wanna focus on that next. 889 00:48:30,638 --> 00:48:30,938 Okay, 890 00:48:30,998 --> 00:48:31,928 that sounds great. 891 00:48:32,378 --> 00:48:35,266 And of course if you do write another book, then we'll have 892 00:48:35,266 --> 00:48:38,506 to have that one come through, right, and do a follow up on this. 893 00:48:38,511 --> 00:48:43,123 And who knows, guys we'll do some follow ups anyways where Find you. 894 00:48:44,443 --> 00:48:49,663 So my landing page is called No foggy days.com or therapist talks.com. 895 00:48:49,663 --> 00:48:51,463 You both will get you there. 896 00:48:51,513 --> 00:49:00,385 And it shows you the link to my book and also the links to my YouTube channel, 897 00:49:00,415 --> 00:49:06,948 LinkedIn TikTok, all the stuff and but no foggy days.com is my landing page. 898 00:49:07,308 --> 00:49:07,398 All 899 00:49:07,398 --> 00:49:10,338 right, and guys, as always, we'll have links to all that and the show. 900 00:49:11,313 --> 00:49:15,873 Everywhere you can find Shannon and hey, you know, cheers for being on TikTok. 901 00:49:15,903 --> 00:49:16,103 Right. 902 00:49:16,134 --> 00:49:18,594 I'm still working on being present on TikTok. 903 00:49:18,714 --> 00:49:21,264 Cause I, I hate social media. 904 00:49:21,384 --> 00:49:21,984 I'm bad at it. 905 00:49:21,984 --> 00:49:22,764 That's kinda weird. 906 00:49:22,881 --> 00:49:25,611 It's not my high like, I love the podcast. 907 00:49:25,611 --> 00:49:27,501 I suck at social media, right. 908 00:49:29,451 --> 00:49:30,111 . It's hard. 909 00:49:30,201 --> 00:49:33,911 It's hard and I, yeah, I have very mixed feelings about it, but somebody, 910 00:49:34,231 --> 00:49:36,911 actually, it was a podcast host that said, you gotta be on TikTok. 911 00:49:37,221 --> 00:49:40,221 There are a lot of people, it's now 10 minute videos. 912 00:49:40,226 --> 00:49:44,281 And so before I couldn't say anything in three minutes, but, right. 913 00:49:44,281 --> 00:49:47,163 But yeah, you know, people are hooking in whether wherever 914 00:49:47,168 --> 00:49:48,743 they're hooking in to get help. 915 00:49:49,553 --> 00:49:50,483 Where they need help. 916 00:49:50,483 --> 00:49:54,653 So there are a lot of people looking at that in terms of toxic 917 00:49:54,653 --> 00:49:58,133 relationships and getting well and having healthier relationships. 918 00:49:58,133 --> 00:50:00,503 So I jumped into it. 919 00:50:02,333 --> 00:50:04,553 . . Now guys, I know you've been waiting for the whole show. 920 00:50:05,123 --> 00:50:07,613 For the question, what is a Bombay duck? 921 00:50:08,483 --> 00:50:15,323 Is it a type of duck, a type of curry, a type of drink, or a type of fish? 922 00:50:16,088 --> 00:50:17,918 Shannon said, it is a type of fish. 923 00:50:18,188 --> 00:50:19,418 And congratulations, Shannon. 924 00:50:19,418 --> 00:50:21,158 It is a type of fish. 925 00:50:21,548 --> 00:50:21,608 Woo. 926 00:50:22,723 --> 00:50:23,528 . I got it wrong. 927 00:50:23,558 --> 00:50:25,126 The first time I did that I thought it was a drink. 928 00:50:25,126 --> 00:50:25,366 Really? 929 00:50:25,366 --> 00:50:25,726 Yeah. 930 00:50:25,726 --> 00:50:26,386 I thought it was a drink. 931 00:50:26,686 --> 00:50:30,136 Like, I was like, that sounds like a mixed drink at a bar or something. 932 00:50:30,196 --> 00:50:34,003 It's . I knew it wasn't a duck, but it's like, so, hey, if you guess a 933 00:50:34,008 --> 00:50:37,423 type of fish, congratulations and congratulations, Shannon on that one. 934 00:50:38,023 --> 00:50:41,113 A guy Shannon's book is more of a guidebook. 935 00:50:42,343 --> 00:50:45,613 It's got journaling topics all along the way to help you through the 936 00:50:45,823 --> 00:50:48,403 this process and help you process. 937 00:50:48,493 --> 00:50:51,223 If you're like me and journaling isn't something you're familiar with or 938 00:50:51,228 --> 00:50:55,933 you're a strong suit, it will really help to walk you through that process. 939 00:50:55,938 --> 00:51:01,063 She's got journaling prompts specifically to help you process your feelings about 940 00:51:01,063 --> 00:51:03,343 the time, what's going on with you. 941 00:51:03,583 --> 00:51:08,293 This is what she does if you're in a toxic relationship and looking 942 00:51:08,383 --> 00:51:10,453 for some help or recovery from. 943 00:51:11,038 --> 00:51:12,868 You can get Shannon's book on her website. 944 00:51:12,868 --> 00:51:13,798 Like I said, we'll have links. 945 00:51:14,038 --> 00:51:18,568 It's also on my library page, as always with all my guests. 946 00:51:18,568 --> 00:51:22,078 You'll find her book there with a permanent link to Amazon to buy her book. 947 00:51:22,858 --> 00:51:28,348 If you are in a bad spot, please please A, help yourself. 948 00:51:28,618 --> 00:51:30,988 And B, if you need help get help. 949 00:51:31,858 --> 00:51:35,098 Don't stay in a relationship that is killing you slowly. 950 00:51:35,638 --> 00:51:37,738 It will not help you at all. 951 00:51:39,373 --> 00:51:42,523 Guys we're really bad about feeling trapped in those relationships 952 00:51:42,523 --> 00:51:43,633 due to our obligations. 953 00:51:43,963 --> 00:51:46,483 Please, please, please nurture yourself. 954 00:51:46,813 --> 00:51:49,633 You're not helping anybody if you're not taking care of you. 955 00:51:50,083 --> 00:51:51,903 And being in that kinda relationship is not. 956 00:51:52,603 --> 00:51:54,163 Go check out Shannon's website. 957 00:51:54,313 --> 00:51:58,213 Go check out her book out of the fog into the clear journaling to help 958 00:51:58,213 --> 00:51:59,773 you heal from a toxic relationship. 959 00:52:00,073 --> 00:52:02,983 Shannon, thank you for taking the time to be on the podcast with 960 00:52:02,983 --> 00:52:04,603 us today and answering questions. 961 00:52:05,743 --> 00:52:07,333 Thank you so much for having me brand. 962 00:52:07,338 --> 00:52:08,773 It's been an absolute pleasure 963 00:52:09,373 --> 00:52:12,733 and guys, as always, be better tomorrow because of what you do today 964 00:52:12,943 --> 00:52:14,023 and we'll see you on the next one. 965 00:52:15,253 --> 00:52:17,713 This has been the Fallible Man Podcast. 966 00:52:18,343 --> 00:52:21,223 Your home for everything, man, husband, and. 967 00:52:22,468 --> 00:52:24,778 Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show. 968 00:52:25,648 --> 00:52:32,878 Head over to www.thefallibleman.com for more content and get your own Fallible 969 00:52:32,878 --> 00:52:33,478 man gear.

Shannon PetrovichProfile Photo

Shannon Petrovich

LCSW, LISAC, BCD

Shannon D. Petrovich
LCSW, LISAC, BCD
Shannon earned her Bachelor’s degree from Bowdoin College, and her Master’s in Social Work from the University of Connecticut. She completed her clinical licenses in Social Work and Substance Abuse Counseling in 1990, and became a Board Certified Diplomate in Clinical Social Work in 2016.

She has worked in inpatient, outpatient, and residential settings, and is currently in private practice.

Her other experiences include developing and being the Clinical Director for a long-term residential rehabilitation program for youth, being the Clinical Coordinator for a day school for emotionally and behaviorally disordered youth, and developing and being the Clinical Director of a therapeutic boarding school for teens with substance abuse and other mental health issues.

In addition she brings a lifelong love of horses and many years of training and experience in equine assisted psychotherapy.

“My parents were both very committed to their work and specifically to improving the lives of others. They have always inspired me to have a positive impact on some small part of the world. During graduate school, and the thirty five years since then, I’ve sought to learn and develop the insights, skills and strategies to best help others heal and transform their lives.”