Unleashing Your Inner Lion: Tapping Into Masculine Power and Potential

[00:00:00] Everything in your life that's happened in your life, number one, you created, so take ownership of everything in your life, the good and the bad. You created it, and you created it for a reason, and that reason has led you to where you are right now in your life. So take it, own it, know that it's perfect, and use it to drive you forward.

Make it your passion to drive you forward in your life. Reach out to the people who are ahead of you on the path. I always say we stand on the shoulders of the men who have come before us. And at the same time, we are reaching a hand back to the men who are behind us on the path. You have wisdom and experience.

Own it. Share it. Guide others. You're perfect and you will move forward and be the best man that you can be.

[00:01:00] Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential, grow into the men we dream of being, while taking care of our responsibilities? Working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? Well, that's the big question. In this podcast, we'll help you answer those questions and more.

My name is Brent, and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast.

Welcome to Podcast, your home for all things man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation, that's our private community, there's more information down in the show notes. And a warm welcome to our first time listeners today. My special guest is author, coach, and speaker, Eric Rizal. Eric, welcome to the show.

Hey, Brent. Thanks, man. It's an honor to be here, man. I really appreciate the invitation, Eric. I'm looking forward to our conversation, but we like to start things out a little bit lighter side. So how's your trivia? Oh, trivia is one of my things, man. I love trivia. Awesome. Awesome. Most people get [00:02:00] really concerned when I say that.

So here we go. Which battle did William the Conqueror win in 1066? Was it the Battle of Hastings? The Battle of Waterloo? Hastings? You're not ignoring the finish. History, Bob? I didn't know it was going to be multiple choice, man. I knew the answer right away. Alright, guys. Make your guess. You know the rules.

Don't cheat. Don't go ahead. Remember what you guessed, and we'll get back to that later. Now, Eric I don't do big introductions because it's just not accurate, right? People don't give a crap about accolades. So in your own words today, right now, in this moment, who is Eric Rogelle? Oh, great question, man. I love that.

I'm an author. I am passionate about everything related to what's going on with men today in our society. Um, and I'm committed to doing whatever I can to help men move forward along the path. And it comes from my own past, my own background. In addition to writing, I'm also a documentary filmmaker. We're [00:03:00] making films that matter and films that leave and make an impact.

Um, that's who I am today. Okay. If you could go back and give your 18 year old self one piece of advice, what would it be? Another great question, man. I love that. Something that I've contemplated a lot, especially, you know, getting asked questions about my past, what led to the writings and the mission. And I would say I would tell my 18 year old self, Everything is perfect, everything you're going through, everything you're experiencing, everything you're doing, who you're being, is all leading you down this path to becoming who you are and who you're meant to be.

So just stay on the path, keep moving forward, it is all. I like it, I like it. I'm not sure everybody has that common answer on that one. I can't even begin to, I gotta ask you guys these questions in case I ever get asked these because I don't even know where to start on [00:04:00] that one. It's a great answer.

It's a good, it's a good contemplation. I would definitely recommend it. Just get out on a boat one day or just go sit, uh, you know, by a lake and just ask yourself that question. Now, Eric, we're just wrapping up the silly season. Uh, it's January. What's your favorite holiday movie and what does that say about you?

Well, I'm an, I am deeply in the camp of Die Hard. It is a Christmas movie. We can be friends. Yes. I could not. My brother and I both. I can't get through the holiday season without seeing Die Hard. And it is absolutely one of my favorite movies. Um, what is the line? It's not Christmas until I see Hans Gruber fall off Nakatomi Tower.

Yeah, I am definitely in that camp. And then if I had to go on the goofy side, Elf, classic, great humor. And you know, that would be another one that I've got to watch every year. Okay. [00:05:00] What is a funny story that your family likes to tell on you when they get a chance? Oh, that's a great one. I don't know that I know the answer.

My mom used to tell crazy stories about me. I don't know when I was a kid, brought like, you know, a girlfriend over. She would try to embarrass me with crazy stuff. I don't know off the top of my head one that they would like to tell. There was one, I mean, it's kind of ridiculous, but we were, we were doing road trips.

From my group in New York, and we had family in Miami, so we would do the drive every year. My brother and I trying to kill each other in the back of a station wagon. So There were a lot of stories around that, like, you know, us rolling around on the back of that thing. Trump pulling over at the Howard Johnson's and, and eating lunch and getting into fights over there.

I think my dad one time, we were leaving Howard [00:06:00] Johnson's and I wanted to finish my milk. And he was sitting next to me and he's like, finish it faster, finish it faster. And I was drinking and he pulled my arm away, spilled the whole milk down the front of me and I went nuts. And had to ride the rest of the ride in the car covered.

In milk down the front of my shirt and clothes. That was one of my dad loved to tell all the time So I guess there's a couple of them around that you drove all the way from new york down to miami Every oh my goodness people who don't travel have no idea how far that actually is Yeah, I think it was our trip.

I want to say it was like 1200 miles And my dad went to him. He went to the university of miami when he you know went to college So he made that drive a lot So for him, he was like, we're not flying. We're driving. Everybody had to get in the car and oh man, it was just nuts. And like I said, my brother and I in the back of this thing, just hours on end wanting to kill each other.

You know, all of our younger listeners are, are, can't comprehend this. We didn't have to used to [00:07:00] wear seatbelts in the back or even have seats necessarily. Exactly. And we had the station wagon, so you had that deck in the back. And they would just throw a bunch of toys back there and we would climb over the seat.

Go hang out in the back, make faces at cars behind us, throw shit around, fight, jump back and forth over the seats. It was, it was insanity back then. Oh yeah, road trips used to be a lot of fun. It was great at the same time, man, because you learn real quick what to do and not to do. When dad slammed on the brakes and you went flying, you learn to anticipate how to handle yourself back there.

We, we had a Suburban and a Station Wagon, and on bigger trips it was the Suburban. You have my brother asleep in the middle seat, my sister asleep in the back seat, and I'd be asleep on top of the luggage in the back window, behind the back seat. It was awesome. Absolutely, man. That's the best way to ride.

Best way to ride. Eric, what's a purchase of 100 or less you made in the last year that's had the biggest impact on your life? 100 or [00:08:00] less. Big impact. Um. Actually, you know what? I think it, if, if, and this is going to sound a little strange, but, you know, the book came out this year and I actually bought some software for a hundred bucks to help put the book together and get it ready for print and publication.

And I got to tell you that made it so much easier. It made getting it out a joy and it was absolutely amazing to use. I know that's probably, you know, not an exciting answer, but it was for me because it made things 10 times easier. Well, it doesn't have to be an exciting answer. It has to be the answer that's right for you.

So you're good . Okay, good. Good. What are you most proud of? I'm most proud of my, my background, my, my past, which has led me to this present. Think, you know, I've, I've never been one to be afraid of change, to be afraid of risk, and I've taken a lot of [00:09:00] risks in my life and they've led me down this path.

They've also allowed me to have multiple careers, everything from starting as a chef and then running restaurants to being a, um, creative director and artist and running magazines to being a journalist, and that led me to travel around the world, uh, doing the craziest stuff all over the world, and then led me to being a writer and an author and then, you know, uh, telling stories both visually and in written form, and really, Ending up being who I am today and so that that is what I'm most proud that I never shied away from taking that risk, making that change, diving headfirst into the unknown, doing something that I had no idea if it would work out or not.

And so I look back on that and I'm, I'm, I'm really proud of the stuff that I've done over my life. What's one random fact people don't know about you, like [00:10:00] just totally off the wall. Like for me, I'm, I'm, I can't eat peas, English peas. Truly. You can't eat peas? They, they like give me bad gas. Like I bloat. I had no idea.

I cut them out of my diet for a while. I did a really restrictive diet and just cut out everything for a while. Yeah. And then added things back in one at a time. Peas were the only vegetable I ever liked, turns out. Nope. My body doesn't like them. Oh, wow. I think for me, something that's really thought was strange, found out some other people had this too, was when I was younger, I was terrified of talking on the phone.

Just, I, I just was terrified of talking on the phone. I didn't want to make phone calls. I didn't like answering the phone, you know, back then you didn't have caller ID. You didn't have, you know, FaceTime or Zoom where you could actually see the person. And I always had this, like, I didn't know who was on the other end of the phone.

I didn't know if they were making faces at me or, you know, doing all these crazy things. I mean, [00:11:00] it was just this real childhood fear of mine that thankfully, you know, I've gotten over. But when I was real young, that was it. I just did not like to be on the phone. I'm laughing because I know some of our audience can't even fathom that.

I still remember sitting in the hallway phone trying to talk to my girlfriend on the landline. Party lines. I miss party lines. I think all of that may have gotten me over the fear, but I'm talking about like, you know, five, six, seven years old, just like, I don't want to do it. Eric, what's something everyone should know before we dig in today's show?

Yeah, I would say, know that the best thing to do is keep an open mind. Be willing. And if you have what I had for the longest time, that know it all that runs up here. And I heard that already. I've seen this before. I've heard that before. Let go of that today because we may talk about some stuff that you think you may have heard before, but really look at it with new [00:12:00] eyes, new ears, get a different perspective on it.

Go a little bit deeper, allow it in. And I promise it can change your life. Fair enough. Guys, we've been getting to know Eric just a little bit and who he is and what he's about. Uh, just understanding who this man is that we're talking to today. And in the next part of the show, we're going to dive into lions raised with lambs.

We're going to roll our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Eric Rougeau. Now, before we go any further, I wanted to share with you guys. I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast. Like I passionately love what I'm doing. And one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like Grow Your Show.

Grow Your Show is a one stop podcast do it all. Now, I use Grow Your Show for my marketing, but Grow Your Show is literally a one stop shop. You can record your episode and just drop it off with them and they take it from there. It's amazing. If you are interested in picking up podcasting as a hobby, or [00:13:00] maybe you're looking to expand your business and use podcasting in that aspect, talk to my friends over at Grow Your Show.

Adam will take care of you. I guarantee it. I trust him. He's my friend. He's my business. Colleague and I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show guys. Welcome back in the first part of the show We were spending some time just getting to know who Eric is and what he's really about in this part of the show We're gonna going to get into his book lions race as lambs now Eric before we Go down to the book, tell us a little bit about your journey, right?

Because you work in the men's space. You have other projects you're working on. How did we get here? Great question. And you know, for me, and I mentioned this in the book, there's really only two ways you can raise men, young men. One is either in a culture of fear. The other is in a culture of courage. For me, I [00:14:00] was raised in a culture of fear.

And, you know, I mentioned earlier, you know, being afraid to talk on the phone. I, I truly was afraid of everything. I was raised by a single mom. Um, and one thing I want to mention at the beginning of this is, you know, I talk about that a lot. It's in the book. I talk about it when I guest on podcasts like yours.

Mom was awesome. I love mom. I don't blame mom. This is not a, look what she did to me, conversation. Mom raised me the best she could with the tools she had at the time. But she raised me to constantly be in fear. Everything was going to either kill me, injure me, make me sick. Something bad was going to happen no matter what, so I had to be cautious all the time.

And I think, you know, I grew up very shy. I had a stutter as a kid, so I didn't like to talk very much. And I think that also, again, lends to that story I told about being afraid to talk on the phone because I had that stutter and was made fun of a lot for it. [00:15:00] And being raised in that culture of fear, it was keep everything down, keep quiet, keep your head down, don't stand out, everything is going to try to get you.

And it never really felt right, right? Never felt natural. To me, especially as I got older, you know, it was something in here doesn't feel right, doesn't feel natural to be kept that small. And so I went on this journey of like trying to find, and I didn't know it at the time what I was doing, I know now, but I was trying to find that beast that was in here.

So I started getting involved in sports, started lifting weights, you know, which again scared mom, you're going to get hurt, you're going to break a bone, you're going to, you know, all these crazy things. But I found that when I played sports and if I got an injury. It actually felt more natural. When I got into college, one of the first things I did, the very [00:16:00] first night I was in school, there was a sign outside the dining hall for a martial arts club.

And I signed up for that immediately. Because that was something that I've always been drawn to, and it was something my mother would never let me do. Because it scared the hell out of her. Right? I mean, everything scared the hell out of her, but particularly that. She didn't understand it. So I signed up for that, um, got bumped and bruised and broke bones and got hit in the face and, and, you know, kicked in the ribs and all kinds of stuff.

And I found out that I really, really liked it a lot. And I excelled at it. In fact, became, uh, got my black belt, became an instructor, opened my own school, had my own school for eight years. And I found within me tapping more into that beast, that natural beast that we all have as men really is the more natural way to go.

And so I started looking for mentors, men who had been on the path before me that could help [00:17:00] me understand what that was and command it in the right way. Because a lot of times in my youth, Brent, I was an angry young man. Cause I had kept that press down, I had kept it hidden, I had kept it, I was told it was wrong.

Don't ever show that, don't ever be angry, don't ever, and all that did was make me more and more angry cause that stuff was bottled up inside me. So I wanted to look for these men who could help me along this path and show me the right way, and I found some of those good men that are out there. So don't ever let anyone tell you there are no good men out there who are willing to mentor and guide young men.

There are a lot of them out there. And I found one in particular, and he's my co author in the book, a man named Rob James. And Rob is brilliant. He has been a leader in the human consciousness space for 20, 30 years. And he was raised in a culture of courage. So he was raised on [00:18:00] cattle ranches, then he went into the Marines, um, and then he got into a human consciousness war.

And so, his whole life, he was encouraged to do things that, like, my mother was always afraid of. So he was encouraged to get into a pen with a bunch of bulls. To drive heavy equipment, to ride horses, to, you know, hunt fish, uh, and then obviously in the Marines, the most supreme fighting force on Earth was trained how to, um, you know, in combat.

He and I got together and I said, wow, this is really what I've been looking for my whole life, was someone like this who can take me on that path, show me the right way to, to, to command that beast, to really tap into my warrior self, to really tap into my heart self. And. Become the man that I really had always dreamed of being.

And so that's really my path along that way. [00:19:00] And it started for me with knowing deep inside that how I was raised and how I was feeling as a young man wasn't the ideal. Now that all said, Brian, I will tell you it, it is the ideal because it led me to where I am now. And to write the book and to, you know, help other men along the path and be that mentor, uh, for them.

So, that's really what got me here. And, you know, I say every day, thank God and thank God for mom. Because if she hadn't raised me the way she did, I wouldn't be the man I am right now. Would you change anything about the way you were raised? I wouldn't change a thing. I mean, there are times I wish I could go back.

You know, I look at Rob and I look at the way he was raised and I'm like Wow, I mean, he, he was raised on cattle ranches with men, ranchers and cowboys who were like John Wayne, you know, and got that instilled at a young age. There are times I really do wish I could change and go back and do that and, [00:20:00] but then I don't think I'd be on the mission I'm on now.

Having gone through that and being raised the way that I was and the adversities that I went through, the challenges that I faced, feeling weak, feeling small. Feeling like I was never going to be this ideal that I was looking toward being drove me down that path. And now, doing what I do now, I can come from that.

So when I sit with men who have been raised the way that I was raised, but are not where I am on the path, I have that empathy for them. I can understand where they are. I can understand the feeling. And fortunately, I know the way out. I know the way to the light. I know the way to the power. And I can guide them there because I was guided.

I've never actually met a wrench kid or a farm kid who regrets the way they were raised, so Ever. I saw a thing one time and I swear to [00:21:00] you, I know it's true. They said you will never see a cowboy on a psychiatrist's couch. And I can tell you that is true because these are men and women, but men, really, because it's what we're talking about, who are raised.

naturally. And when I say naturally, in nature, they're out in nature, they're tapping into their beast on a regular basis through. With animals who are natural beasts, they are in it every day. And I truly believe that's the way we all should live out in nature, commuting with nature and harmony with nature, animals, hunting, fishing, biking, sailing, whatever it is, you know, you're into, but get out into nature and, and ranch kids and farm kids, they understand that at the deepest level.

What do you think about this concept of toxic masculinity? That's one that kind of gets me going, man. I got to tell you, you know, [00:22:00] people ask me this all the time, you know, what do I think about Todd? What do we know? What about toxic masculinity? Why is masculinity toxic? And the answer is there is no such thing as toxic masculinity.

Masculinity is beautiful. Masculinity is necessary. Masculinity is absolutely amazing. It is not. And I think it sends the message to young men everywhere that the feeling that you feel inside, that lion, In there, that beast that's in there is wrong, toxic, bad. I will say, when, when, you know, it's in the book and it's in the work that I do, we have what we call the four foundational archetypes.

The warrior, the lover, the king, the hero. Taking the first one, the warrior, which is our masculine side. Warrior and lover, or the heart. Lover being the [00:23:00] feminine side, those are the duality, the two. Come together in harmony. But within each of those There is the empowering side and the limiting side. So if we look at the warrior, we look at our masculine and we look at some of the empowering traits in our masculine.

There are some really wonderful things. There are some incredible things there. Courage, leadership, boldness, ambition, exploration, adventure, risk taking, stewardship. All of these things that make us, you know, well, I say us, make masculinity amazing. Right? So all those things that drive and move us forward.

Gotta have these things in us. That said, there is the limiting side of this as well. And the limiting side of our warrior, the limiting side of our masculinity, are things like being violent, overbearing, inconsiderate. [00:24:00] Uh, what did I say, violent already? Along the side of violent, you know, perverted, dirty, disgusting.

All of those things that people label as toxic masculinity are simply the limiting side of our masculine, our warrior. So when I say to people, when you look at that kind of stuff, and we all have this. Men and women all have these sides to us. The ideal is to shift out of the limiting side of your masculine.

When you're looking at yourself and you're going, man, I'm being obnoxious or angry or violent or overbearing, or any of those things shifting into the positive side, the empowering side of being that leader, courageous, bold, maverick, that really is the beautiful part of our warrior, of our masculine. So wrapping that up and answering your question about what do I think [00:25:00] about toxic masculinity?

It is simply a function of the limiting side of masculine and all masculine should never ever be labeled toxic because all that does is give men and particularly young men the idea that what is in here, the feeling, that beast that's inside, that beautiful driven warrior that we have is somehow damaging and wrong.

It is focus on the empowered side of your masculine, stay there, guide yourself there, focus on those, and then people won't have a reason to call masculinity toxic. Now you have an interesting quote early in your book. You quote Emerson and say, The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

Um, I thought that was a profound statement to start the book on with early. [00:26:00] For some of our audience who may be not this familiar with Emerson's work. Why this quote? Emerson was an interesting enough, like growing up, you hear, you know, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and then he wrote some amazing works and these come from self reliance and if you think about the title self reliance, what Emerson was talking about was being independent and independence is another one of those empowering warrior traits and being independent.

Emerson believed that that was the way society should function. People being very strong, very self reliant. Emerson also said that the way societies function is everyone's gotta get a, you know, go along. Follow the herd. Be part of the flock. He didn't believe in that. So, you know, like I said, growing up, you know, you hear Ralph Waldo Emerson, I'm thinking he's this nerdy, you know, bookish kind of, you know, guy.

He was a beast, and he [00:27:00] was a naturalist, and he got out into nature a lot. And this quote about the end of the human race being over civilization, and he wrote this, by the way, in 1841. So think about that. It was 180 years ago that he wrote this. So this has been going on for a very long time, where we feel this way.

And there's a, there's a definition of the word civilize, to civilize something. Means to remove the savage from what Emerson is saying is the more we remove the savage from ourselves, especially as men, the more we deny that beast, the worse and worse and worse. It gets for us. And we're seeing this now.

He saw it in his time almost 200 years ago. We're seeing this now. The more men deny that we have this beast, which, by the way, again, because we've been, you [00:28:00] know, this toxic masculinity has been crammed down everybody's throats. Without looking at the beautiful side of masculinity, which is what Emerson was looking at, was over civilization means removing too much of the savage from.

We become weak. We become dasan. We become easy to control. That's what Emerson was saying. Once that happens, we die off because we can no longer take care of ourselves. So, to me, my take on that and why I use it in the book so early is I want men to understand that what you're feeling in here, that beast that's stirring inside you, especially young men as they start to get, you know, into puberty, get older, they start to get stronger.

That's what we start to lean towards. And I want them to know this isn't a modern issue. I mean, it is a modern issue, [00:29:00] but not just a modern issue, something that just popped up in the last few decades. This has been going on with men since the beginning of time. And I love how Emerson says that. So I think the lesson in that is do not ever let yourself become over civilized.

Now, Eric, I read a lot of personal development books. I read a lot of quote unquote men's books specifically. I've been in this field. You took a very different approach, which made you look incredibly readable. Like I sat down and read it in, I think, a couple hours. I read a lot. So I read pretty quick, but I sat down and just read through it.

It was, it was enjoyable to read. It was easy to understand and really spoke to me. Tell us about Lions Raised as Lambs. Yeah. You know, I really, really appreciate you saying that because you know, what's interesting is, and I've heard from a lot of men is like, I don't read. I don't read. And especially like, you know, you said like personal development [00:30:00] books.

I think as men, and it's been my experience, I'm speaking just solely from my own experience, you know, as a, as a journalist and a writer, I've found that a lot of men, we don't like to be preached to, right? Like you should do this and you should do that. You know, I always tell men, when you're mentoring, Young men, kill off the shoulds.

Just speak from experience. Wisdom, right? Because, you know, shoulds and opinions and advice all come from up here. They come from your head. Wisdom comes from your heart. It comes from true experience. This book really is my experience. And we, Rob and I, it is our journey together. And one of the things we decided early on was Allegory is a great tool, right?

Bible uses allegory. Um, fairy tales use allegory. Myths are allegory. They are just representations of the truth. And we decided that [00:31:00] to tell a story of a literal lion who was raised as a lamb, a lion cub who is adopted by a lamb mama raised to deny his lion hood. And then is found by this powerful warrior lion mentor who guides him through the rest of the book through all the things he needs to understand to truly become a lion and a king felt way more relatable.

Like you said, it spoke to you. It relates to me. It's not preachy. It's not trying to throw things at you, telling you what you should do instead. We wanted it to be a story that spoke to men. I've had men tell me they have wept reading this book because a certain thing will hit them so hard. You can't really do that any other way than with this kind of story, this allegory.

And so that's why we decided to do it that way. [00:32:00] You know, Rob, it was his intuition that said this will be the way the book will really hit men, and he was right. And, and I, so I really appreciate you sharing that, but that's the way the book is written. It is, and I say this in the intro to the book, it's my story, it's Rob's story, but it is all of our story.

Somewhere along that journey, something will click with every man out there and it'll be like, shit, yeah, that's me. I went through that and this is what I've been searching for. And these are the lessons that I've wanted to learn. So it just really allows us to have that impact without being all preaching it from the head.

It was, it was, it was a nice, like, just afternoon. I sat down on my couch next to the windows in sunlight, uh, grabbed my coffee and just sat down and read. And I'm not going to lie. There are some books, if you look on the video behind [00:33:00] me, there, there's a lot of books on my shelf. Those are all author reviews.

And some of them were definitely harder to read than others. I sat down and just kept reading and it's like, Oh, I'm done. Oh, and it was a great way. I connected with the characters, man. I had that emotional rollercoaster with the characters as they had the ups and downs was like, I was sneaky. There's a lot of intelligent stuff in here.

That was, yeah, man. I definitely appreciate that. You know, one of my favorite things to do is when, um, you know, it just happened the other day, buddy, a friend of mine gave one of her clients, the book. And he read it and he happened to know me. I had met him a couple of times and, um, he sent me the most wonderful text about, man, I just finished the book.

And he did the same thing. He did it in one sitting on a weekend. And that was another, you know, intentional thing here was to make this a short, easy read. Like nothing, there's no fluff in there. We didn't pack it with stuff just to make it. a longer book, you know, it is an easy read. And he said, I just read the [00:34:00] book today.

He said, wow, man, just, you know, same kind of reaction you had. And I asked him the question. I love to ask men who read the book. And so I'll ask you, what was your personal biggest takeaway from the book? What had the most impact on you? I want to say it was the surrounding yourself with the right people.

You know, as he moves through the process and I won't give away a bunch of them, but you know, he's got the young lion has his godfather, so to say, who is watched over him and is trying to train him and then later on meets another lion or recognizes these qualities is like, I want you around me. Right. Um, that's been a hard lesson for me to learn.

I've always been, um, that's one of the big lessons I had to learn over the last several years of doing this is I've always been surrounding myself with women. I have very few men who are very close to me. We either really click or I'm more likely to punch you in the face. So [00:35:00] it's, it's been a hard lesson to start to surround myself with men who make me better.

And that was definitely a, it's like, Oh, I, I, I can see the importance even more as it was just clear. Yeah. And I think for us, you know, as men, it's really difficult. You know, I know for me, when I was a journalist, I had to interview a lot of very successful men, you know, through celebrities, musicians, entrepreneurs.

And I would always find myself, like you said, I mean, they're going to really like you. I want to punch you in the face. And I would be with these guys. I'm like, ah, you know, he probably did something shady to make his money or get whatever. He's probably a douche bag, whatever it was. I had this preconceived notion of them and I really would never let the lessons in.

And I think as men, one of the big things we have to learn is honoring other men and being willing. You cannot be a great mentor. This is a hard lesson. I had to learn. You cannot be a [00:36:00] great mentor unless You are willing to be mentored by a great man and give that man that honor. And it doesn't always have to be somebody older or way down the path.

It could be. Someone who's just a little bit ahead of you on the path, someone you turn to for some of their wisdom once in a while, and just being willing to do that. And so, yeah, I love that takeaway that you had about that because it's a reason why you put that in the book is we want men. We want that's in here.

Well, you know, my feeling is as men, we are independent, being strong, independent, self reliant men is so important. It's what Emerson was saying in self reliance, absolutely be independent. However, as we do that. Also being able to allow men into your life who are good men, who will challenge you, who will hold you accountable, who will put a boot in your ass when you need [00:37:00] it, and who will show you the way.

And you know, when you said, I don't really have a lot of good male friends, I've seen the statistics on this, I've seen a number of 'em, and they're, they're, you know, all varying. But one of the things that's striking, no matter which one you look at, is the vast majority of men. And I've seen it. Anywhere from, you know, in the 80 percentile to the high 90 percentile of men do not have one good male friend that they can turn to for wisdom, for guidance, for a shoulder, help them through a challenge.

That is a painfully high number. That is a horrible number. And to me, I believe it's what leads so many men to take their own lives. You know, there is a high percentage of suicides. And I believe it's because a lot of men we've, we're told not to ask for help, not to ask for guidance. It makes us look [00:38:00] weak.

It makes us look lost. I disagree with that wholeheartedly. I believe, um, finding other good men that you can turn to is the way out. And it is a sign of strength. It is an absolute sign of strength. In my work, we always talk about, I talk about vulnerability from strength. Vulnerability from weakness is whining about it, being a victim about it, and complaining about it.

Vulnerability from strength is talking about an issue you're having is, hey man, this is what's going on in my life, and it's really got me, and, and I'm not sure I know how to get out of it. What are some solutions? That's being open and honest about issues you're having in your life, but not from a victim standpoint, from a standpoint of, I'm going to go do something about this and I need your help doing it.

I think as men, we can proactively help other men in that way. Sometimes my business coach is a friend of mine. We, we had worked together on some stuff and he, he came [00:39:00] alongside me when he called me, he's like, bro, you just, you're looking so beat up these days. You're so tired. You're so worn out. You're so beat down.

So this is what we're going to do. I'm going to line you up with this group. You're going to work with me directly on this. And it just really came. I was like, man, I I'm not good asking for help. He said, I know that's why I'm just saying I'm going to help you because I know if I wait for you to ask, you're not going to ask and you need to work on that, but we'll deal with that later.

And just really has come alongside as a mentor and a friend, but he got proactive because he just. He knew I wasn't going to ask for it. It didn't matter how bad it got. And I think we can do that for other men as well on this journey. Oh, a thousand percent. And you know, what you're saying really leads into, there's another thing that's in the book, um, which is, it's really, really important.

And I think for us as men, it's important. And it goes to what you're speaking to, what we [00:40:00] just talked about and honoring good men is we have what we call the sacred seven core value. And this is not something that I came up with alone in any way. It was, it was Rob, my coauthor. It was his idea to have these for the men in our community.

And a number of us sat in a room for what seemed like a week. It was, you know, several hours, but seemed like a week coming down to the core of the core of the core of ideals and values that we believed men should, you know, would benefit living by. And we came up with them and they are courage, honesty.

Integrity, Commitment, Duty, Honor, Love. And when you look at them, Courage and Love being the Alpha and the Omega, Courage is that warrior trait, that masculine warrior trait. Love is that lover trait, that feminine side. And they rank these seven. [00:41:00] And in what you're saying right now about not asking for help, we always look at the first three.

Courage, Honesty, and Integrity. And if you have the courage, and it takes an enormous amount of courage to tap into, But if you have the courage to be ruthlessly honest with yourself, yourself first, ruthlessly honest with yourself, that leads you to being a man of integrity, meaning you are the same man in public as you are in private.

You are not saying one thing to your people and doing something different when you're home. And I think we've all seen a lot of that, especially lately out there in society where people are, you know, talking one thing and you're like, yeah, man, that's awesome. And then you hear they're doing this. Not an integrity.

So the courage to be ruthlessly honest with yourself leads you to be a man of integrity. When you can do that, and then we look at, you know, commitment to [00:42:00] yourself and others, duty to yourself, your family, your relationships, your kids, your country, whoever it may be, really stepping into your duty, and then honor, being able to honor those around you, especially these good men that may be able to guide you.

And it is an honor. To be asked to be somebody's mentor, to guide them in any aspect of their life, and then just love, pure love. Love is just living from that heart, leading with your warrior and then supporting it with, you know, beautiful heart will get you there. And I think that's, you know, your, your business coach understood that on some level that.

You know, that's where he could guide you the best. And so I would say Brent looking at that when he said, you know, I have, I have a lot of trouble asking for help. It is courage, honesty and integrity that will lead you there. I love it. I love it guys. We've been discussing lions, races, lambs. Make sure I [00:43:00] said that right this time because I screwed up the first time.

In the next part of the show, we're going to dive into the four foundational archetypes and how they impact your life and how they can benefit your life. We're gonna roll our sponsor and we'll be right back with more from Eric. How well do you sleep at night? Do you toss and turn and wake up more tired than when you went to bed?

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Now let's go on to the show guys. Welcome back in the last part of the show. We were discussing the book lions raised as lambs with Eric. And in this part of the show, we're going to [00:44:00] dive into the four foundational architects and archetypes and how they impact your life. This is one of those great pieces of the book that you just put in there.

So gently throughout there that you're like, ah, I see what you did there. Okay. Right. As you're reading through. And I, I really enjoyed the reflection questions actually in the chapters. I thought it's like, okay, how are you going to pull that off with an allegory? And then it totally worked. It was like, Oh, okay.

That's how got it. Right. But you really break it down into the, this three pillar formula. Uh, that's just incredible. And I know today we're just going to get into the four archetypes. You already talked a little bit about the sacred seven core values, but we touched on the four archetypes and we touched on.

The warrior part and the lover part. So let's get into this and how they impact us. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, [00:45:00] these, these four archetypes, the warrior, the lover, the king, the hero, they're, they are so impactful, like you said, and they really come from every story ever told. If you, if you break myths, legends, science fiction, um, day movie stories, they, they have these archetypes within them.

And. Man named Joseph Campbell, who wrote a couple of incredible, incredible books. I mean, he wrote a lot of books, but these two particular strike me. One is The Power of Myth, and the other is The Hero with a Thousand Faces. And what Campbell found was, why he said The Hero with a Thousand Faces was, every story ever told is every story ever told.

They all follow this, what he coined, the hero's journey. And it was this hero's journey, Where, you know, it had all these different steps and depending on what [00:46:00] scholar you look at, there's 14 steps. I've seen it as high as 20 something steps of the journey that we go through, right? And, and the reason why these myths and legends and stories and all that impact us so incredibly and so profoundly is because it's what we call the software of our soul.

It is our story as well. So it's not just the story we're reading. It's our story. So looking at his journey, we looked at these archetypes that we embody during this, and it is. The warrior, which is our, like I said, our masculine side, that's the driven, ambitious. In every story, the hero faces obstacles and challenges and self doubt and all of these things that they must overcome.

That's the warrior side. So like I said [00:47:00] earlier, the empowering side of our warrior is ambition, drive, courage, boldness, being a maverick. Being independent, being a risk taker, all of these things that drive us forward. That said, we have the lover side of us. That lover archetype, that's our heart. And that's all the stuff, and I say this, that's all the stuff that makes life so juicy and delicious.

Things like beauty and creativity. Wisdom is actually a lover archetype trait. And, uh, creativity, magnetism, charisma, um, playfulness, abundance, generosity, trust, all of those we need as well. That makes us well rounded because if we were solely warrior, especially as men and a lot of men, um, have, have, I would say trouble with this, but this is a thing that kind of gets them.

They're like. Well, do I have to be a warrior all the time? Am I [00:48:00] just go, go, go, go, beast, beast, beast? Because that makes you a barbarian. The other side of us, that lover side, is what, in a relationship, makes the relationship work. Because it's that side of us that's creative and playful and loving and compassionate.

And all of those things, right? So, we must have that lover side, but we support with the lover, we don't lead with it. We're warriors first. So, that warrior archetype, It's supported by, you know, drives us forward. The lover archetype is what rounds us out, makes us complete person. We support with the man who can integrate his warrior and his lover, lead with his warrior, support with his lover, live that way, is living from the king archetype.

That is the king. So when I work with a lot of my men, my, my clients, I'll always say, remember, king come from king. [00:49:00] And that is leading with that empowered warrior. So if you need to do something, you need to be driven and decisive. Decisive is a great warrior trait. Move yourself forward and then support with that love or something, which is the generosity, the abundance, the creativity, the things that will make it thrive.

Then you're coming from King. So the King takes care of himself and the kingdom first. I always say if it's good for the king, it's good for the kingdom. Take care of this first, then you can take care of your kingdom. Because if the king is sick and weak and angry and stupid and all of those limiting things, can't take care of the kingdom.

The king's gotta be happy and powerful and wealthy and healthy and thriving, then he can take care of his kingdom. So king, kingdom first. When you drop doing those things for [00:50:00] yourself and for your kingdom, and you act selflessly for humanity, for your neighbor, for someone in distress, that's when you elevate to hero.

So the hero does it purely out of love, selfless. And so those are the four that we see, the warrior, the lover, the king, the hero. And I tell men all the time, if you remember those. You lead with your warrior, support with your lover, integrate those two, you're operating from king, take care of yourself, your kingdom, and then the selfless acts of love for those in need, distress, whatever it may be.

So that's where those four archetypes come from. Okay. I'm, I'm familiar with the concept of the hero's journey from Campbell, but how you [00:51:00] integrated it into the book, it's like, Oh, you actually could see things play out. As men, we can be a little slow on the uptake sometimes I'm a little, I'm a little stubborn, little, little thick every now and then I get kind of set in my ways and so it was to actually see it play throughout this story was really cool.

Yeah, and there's another thing you'll notice in there, which is really, really important in Campbell's hero's journey is it's the mentor. There is always in every story ever told the hero never does it alone. The hero never does it by themselves, they never discover their powers or their greatness or their, you know, the things that will make them the hero, they never discover that on their own.

There is that mentor. And a lot of times in, in myths and legends and in a lot of science fiction, it is a magical mentor. So [00:52:00] you'll notice, you know, we kind of have one in the book, the little owl, Consilio is the one who's kind of. The, the, the, the wise guy in the book. Whereas Leo, the Godfather and the Warrior Line in the book is the Warrior mentor, right?

So he's got both side coming. He's got the warrior side from Leo and he's got the wisdom side from Concilio, the Owl. And if you look at this in and all the great stories, you know, star Wars is the big one because everybody knows the story of Star Wars and George Lucas went to USC, which is where. Joseph Campbell taught and this is goal was to create a space myth and take this beautiful mythology That Campbell had laid out and use it as his framework for Star Wars.

So you have everything that's there So if you look at Yoda and Obi Wan, they are those magical mentors Luke Skywalker never becomes a great [00:53:00] Jedi without them And so the lesson there too in going through these archetypes is having someone who can guide you in them, to them, to tap into them further is also essential.

I like it. Then you tie that into the sacred cores, right? And it just, it's fun for me. I like to see things build. I like to see it play out. I go back and like overanalyze everything. And just racked my brain back through it was like, Oh, that was cool. Right. I'm fascinated by good writing. So it's always fun to go back through the story and pick things apart.

I'm notoriously bad at like, I'll go through like star Wars and Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. And I'm like picking apart the literature. Uh, Oh, okay. Yeah. So it gets really over here. There's a great, there's a, there's a, I don't want to interrupt you, but there's a great comedian who does a spot on where he says, and he shows it.

He proves it. He says. [00:54:00] J. K. Rowling didn't write Harry Potter. She just rewrote a shittier version of Star Wars. And she relates all the characters. She says like, Harry Potter is Luke Skywalker. Instead of a lightsaber, he's got a wand. Right. Dumbledore is Oda and Harry and I mean, sorry, Ron and Hermione are Han Solo and Princess Leia, and he just lays this whole thing out.

And it's very funny to watch, but the, but the truth is he's just laying out Campbell's hero's journey because both of those great works follow that same framework. Oh yeah. Well, that's what I was wanting to get that to your point was going back through all like the really great. Larger stories, they stick around for years and decades and centuries, right?

The ones that survive all follow that format. If you look back at the [00:55:00] great works of history, the ones that have survived all follow this very specific format and it's very cool. Yeah. And so when you, when you're working with those, the archetypes, the four foundational archetypes. In your life, it will move you forward.

And that's the kind of point we're making with the book too. Is if you live that hero's journey, your warrior, your lover, your King, your hero, you will live that memorable life. And so that's what, what we're, what we're putting forward here. And I love that you got that from the book, Eric, for our listeners.

Okay. If we got someone listening right now, who's. Really keen in, and they want this for their life. What, what are the first three, three steps to start taking? Well, the first step would be get the book, you know, and I'm not, and honestly, I'm not just saying [00:56:00] that to, you know, you know, have you sell books because look, you, you know, the experience you had reading it.

And I've heard from dozens of men who had the same experience in reading it. So I would say step one, get the book because it will lay out for you the journey. And, and you will see things in there that, that will hit you deeply from within your own life. So I would say, number one, get the book. And number two is take action.

And I don't care what that action is. So whatever feels right for you. Too many of us, and this is how I lived my life before, I read the book, I get the knowledge, and it just sits up here in my head. I have the knowledge, but I don't do anything with it. You don't do anything about it. And we, and at the end of the book, we kind of lay out some things that you can do in terms of taking action.

And that's really the key to anything is you acquire that knowledge. And to me, wisdom is simply a deepening of your knowledge through [00:57:00] experience. So give yourself that experience, go out and take action, read the book, take action. And third would be what we discussed in here today. Find good men to surround yourself with good men, men who Live as kings, men who follow, if not those sacred seven core values, a set of core values that are their North Star, that are their guide.

Find these men, surround yourself with them, because that's the only way to continue your journey as a good man. So, read the book, take action, surround yourself with good men. Now guys, you've, you've got the layout here. If you aren't sure, right, if you're coming from a place of living with fear, Of not being taking that action of not living a little larger where you'd like to be.

Uh, before we want to wrap this up, I want to say Eric's got an option for [00:58:00] you. So Eric, tell us a little bit more about bold men adventures. Yeah. Um, bold men adventures is awesome. And there's also the bold men brotherhood, which is great too. Two great things you can get involved in. So bold men adventures, you know, when I was a journalist and I said, I traveled around the world doing crazy stuff, I would come back from some of these trips.

I'd post on social media, you know, while I was out there, what I was doing. I'd get back and my buddies would be like, Dude, man, I wanted to do that. I would love to do that. All I do is sit in an office all day, and then when I get home, I'm hanging out with the wife and the kids, and I never get outside, never do anything.

So, Bold Men Adventures was born of getting men out of the house, out of the office, out of their head, and into nature. Getting outside, connecting with nature. Like I mentioned, you know, cowboys and farm boys, they know this for a fact, getting out there, what it does to you in here, what it opens up the passion that it opens up in you.

And I would say, you know, for us, it's been really amazing to get some of these guys and you can see some videos and stuff [00:59:00] on the, on the bold men adventure site, the profound impact that it has just getting outside, being in nature with other men and doing it purposefully. Overcoming challenges, pushing yourself physically, pushing yourself mentally, pushing yourself spiritually and getting out and doing things you never dream you would has been just powerful and impactful.

So I would highly recommend doing that. You know, go to look up bold men, adventures. com and you'll see that. And then the brotherhood brand is, you know, bold men brotherhood is we meet every Thursday night at 6 PM Eastern on a zoom call. We got men from all over the country to come on and it is an hour of.

Myself and two co leaders that I have, men that have been in the work for a long time. It is us leading a discussion very much like what goes on in the book contemplations. I'll bring up a topic. We'll talk about it Where is this hitting you in your life? How can you move forward? We'll mastermind it a little bit [01:00:00] and some of the men say it's the only time during the week when they truly have quality time with other men We talked about men not having friends a lot of the guys in the brotherhood have become really close friends mentors to each other Done business together, but it's a place if you want to meet and hang out with and move forward with like minded men who are looking to be the best men they could be.

It's bold men Brotherhood. All right. What's next for Eric? Ooh, there's good stuff coming up. Like I said, I'm a storyteller at heart. I'm fascinated by stories. You can tell with the archetypes and the, the, the core values and you know, Campbell's hero's journey. And I love storytelling and I've done it mostly in written form.

And what I'm getting into now is video form. visual storytelling. So I am, I've always been passionate about documentaries. I love the storytelling [01:01:00] and documentaries. I love the fact that they entertain and they educate at the same time. And so I've been fortunate enough to be involved with some really good people who are, uh, direct, create, produce documentary.

And so I have some documentary projects coming up and they will be around moving people forward. What's the impact we can have on people? And telling those stories visually. So that, that's coming up next. I'm excited about it. You have to get Morgan Freeman to narrate it. That just makes any documentary perfect.

I would listen to Morgan Freeman read the phone book. Right? I mean, I'm not kidding you. That man, the minute I hear his voice out of here, I'm like, I'm in. I'm listening. I'm engaged. Yeah, there's two or three guys who have that voice that you're just like, yes. I don't even know what I'm listening to, but yes, right?

Exactly. Eric, where is the best place for people to connect with you? Oh, great question. Um, social media, number one, I'm the only Eric Rogel on Instagram, [01:02:00] on Facebook, on LinkedIn. Uh, you can find me there. And I always say to guys, look, courage is the number one, um, of the sacred seven core values and courage is there for a reason.

It's number one for a reason. Without courage, you're never going to move forward. You stay in that fear. It's going to hold you where you are. Tap into that courage. So reach out, talk to me on social media, man. I will answer you. I love hearing from men. All the time. So definitely on social media and then lions raised as lambs.

com. There's info on the book there. There's info on me there. There's a way to jump on, you know, uh, a mailing list and get some, some good stuff from me regularly. And you'll, you'll move forward in that and you'll, you'll find it about anything that's going on, you know, anywhere else, so social media and lions raised as lambs.

com. And of course, guys, we'll have all those links down in the show notes or the show description, whatever platform you're joining us on today. Now, I know that you're all worried about [01:03:00] which battle William the Conqueror won in 1066. You nailed it with Battle of Hastings. I've never actually had someone just tell me the answer before I got through the multiple choice.

So, uh, history buff and, and trivia guy. So, remind me not to play against you in Trivial Pursuit. My, my, my dad was that way. Like, we, we made him feel his twice because he was that way. Well, Eric, wrap us out. If our listeners hear nothing else today, nothing else in this conversation, what is the one thing you want them to hear?

Everything in your life that's happened in your life, number one, you create it. So take ownership of everything in your life, the good and the bad. You created it and you created it for a reason. And that reason has led you to where you are right now in your life. So take it, own it, know that it's perfect and use it to drive you [01:04:00] forward.

Make it your passion to drive you forward in your life. Reach out to the people who are ahead of you on the path. I always say we stand on the shoulders of the men who have come before us. And at the same time, we are reaching a hand back to the men who are behind us on the path. You have wisdom and experience.

Own it. Share it. Guide others. You're perfect and you will move forward and be the best man that you can be. Gentlemen, as always, be better tomorrow because of what you do today, and we'll see you. This has been the Fallible Man podcast. Your home for everything man, husband, and father. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show.

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