Ask More Listen Better Building Trust Through Authentic Dialogue

Ask More Listen Better Building Trust Through Authentic Dialogue

D Brent Dowlen: [00:00:00] Brad, what's the biggest mistake most of us make when communicating with other people? 

Brad Beeler: Uh, I personally believe that we try to get into the questions too quick without opening people up. Having seen your podcast, I think is a perfect, perfect example of that. As you kind of open people up, you establish that rapport, um, and then you, you get to the questions that you want to get.

So I think communication today, and partly because we are almost in this text asynchronous communication mode where I send a text, I have time to think, they have time to think, and we, we have this manufactured communication. Um, so free flowing, um, lack of improv, um, not really connecting with people, not being curious about what makes them tick.

And just in this transactional talk, I think is the, the problem that we have today. 

D Brent Dowlen: Gentlemen, on today's episode, I'm sitting down with a man who knows more about building rapport, building trust, and communicating with anyone. Most people will ever know. [00:01:00] Brad Beeler holds the record for criminal polygraph exams in the United States Secret Service.

As a 25 year veteran, he has learned to communicate in a way that people will tell him things that go against their own best interest. So I mean, if you're communicating with the worst of the worst, how do you get them to tell you things that don't serve them? How do you communicate with anyone in a deep, impactful way and build trust?

Well, the good news is it has nothing to do with enhanced interrogation techniques, sleep deprivation, war to board, stress position, flat out assault. So we can actually use this information, but the key is found in genuine curiosity. 

Kiera Knigtly: Curiosity. 

D Brent Dowlen: Brad breaks down how curiosity has helped him through over 5,000 interrogations with some really, really.

Hideous people. We, we reigned it in, [00:02:00] uh, because we couldn't say some of those things on the show because Brad has had to sit with the worst and the worst. But he shares how the same curiosity that's helped him through these interrogations can revolutionize your communication skills with the people who matter in your life, whether it's coworkers, your spouse, or your kids.

Curiosity is the secret to how you communicate and how you connect and build trust with the people you need to talk to. Let's get into it. The Driven to Thrive broadcast purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men, helping men go from living to thriving purpose-filled intentional lives. Welcome to the Driven, thrive broadcast purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men.

I'm your host, Brent Dowlen, and we help men go from living to thriving purpose-filled intentional lives. My guest today has conducted more criminal polygraph exams than any other agent in Secret Service history, and has secured hundreds of confessions, retired United States Secret Service agent Brad Beeler.

Brad, welcome [00:03:00] to The Driven 2 Thrive Broadcast. 

Brad Beeler: Thank you so much, Brent. Appreciate the opportunity. 

D Brent Dowlen: Now, Brad, you've, you've seen the show and we like to start out kinda light, so how's your trivia? 

Brad Beeler: Uh, bring it. 

D Brent Dowlen: Alright, we'll, C what was the top grossing movie of 2014? Was it A, the Hunger Games B, the Lego Movie C.

Captain America, winner Soldier, or D. Guardians of the Galaxy. 

Brad Beeler: I'm gonna go Guardians of the Galaxy. 

D Brent Dowlen: Alright, guys, you know the rules, don't cheat. And for God's sake, do not write if you're listening to this in the car where I know most of you are. Now, Brad, I don't like to do huge introductions because I can't capture who you are.

So today, in this moment, we'll get into everything before this, but today in this moment, who is Brad Beeler? 

Brad Beeler: Uh, basically I'm a son of two wonderful parents that have just sat, just went through their 60th year anniversary. I'm the husband of, uh, an amazing wife who's kept me on my toes for 26 years. [00:04:00] Uh, father of two wonderful kids that, uh, definitely bring a little comic relief, uh, on a daily basis.

And now I'm retired. So, uh, you know, anytime you've been doing something for 25 years and you all of a sudden pull the plug, uh, trying to find my, my next adventure.

D Brent Dowlen: 60 years, man, that is just so congratulations to your parents, dude. That is just such a, yeah. Awesome. Huge thing. How long have your wife and you have been married now? 

Brad Beeler: T Yeah, 26. So my, we got married right before I came into the Secret Service, so, um, it's a hard job and lots of travel and, and I think we missed 17 of those anniversaries, um, due to the fact that we got married in September and we always have protection in September at the United Nations.

So it was one of those things where I was always gone, but she's an absolute trooper and, uh, blessed, uh, blessed that she's always been by my side. 

D Brent Dowlen: That's amazing, man. Congratulations on that as well. Thank you. Uh, I, I can't imagine being retired already. That's you, [00:05:00] you look young and healthy and like you're fiddle.

Fiddle and you've got kids and it's like retired. Huh? That's, that's crazy. I. 

Brad Beeler: Yeah, I'm still getting used to it. I, uh, I'm blessed. Uh, I enjoy, uh, Brazilian jiujitsu, so it's given me a lot more time to, to train and things like that and write a book. And so all that has been nice, free time. But being able to spend time now with my, my kids, especially during the summer, has been great.

D Brent Dowlen: That's awesome. What is, what is a common misconception people have about Secret Service agents? 

Brad Beeler: Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of times people view the Secret Service strictly as a protective organization, which we are at a very high level, at a worldwide level. Um, not just with the president, vice president and candidates, but also every foreign head of state.

Uh, the equivalent of our president, uh, that comes into the United States gets full-time secret service protection. So it, it's, it's a hard job. It's, it's, it's a, it's a fun job, but it's one of those things that a lot of people don't understand what we do. You're, you're taking care of this [00:06:00] person 24 hours when they're sleeping, you're there.

Um, all those things. Obviously we have shifts, but the Secret Service actually started in 1865, and it was one of the great ironies of history that Abraham Lincoln signed us into law just before he went to Ford's Theater. Okay. So, uh, he could have probably used us, um, but what he was signing into law was an organization that worked counterfeit money.

So, uh, for the last 160 years, we've worked financial crimes as much as we've done protection. So, um, you know, it's, it's one of those things where I started in Chicago, I started working counterfeit financial crimes, uh, organized crime before we would do protection. So it's a way for us to augment.

Protective skills, and then also when you can't do protection for 25 years. So it's a way to kind of pull back a little bit, uh, but still keep your brain active. So I think a good protection agent is a good investigation agent and, and vice versa. So I'd say that's the biggest myth is that people think we're always running next to the limo, and [00:07:00] that's not the case.

And when it comes to protection, I spent a lot more times in an empty stairwell or next to a dumpster than I did running next to the limo. 

D Brent Dowlen: Not, not quite as glorious as everybody imagines it all. No, no. Brad, you, you did army investigation, right? With CID. You've been a skilled interviewer now acro across multiple agencies between Army and into the Secret Service.

You've worked with him, he's one of the most elite agencies in the world. What is the most single singly most important thing you've learned at this point in your life? 

Brad Beeler: Oh geez. Um, you know, with me and the Secret Service, I had a unique kind of experience. So yeah, I've got some great pictures with the presidents and, and things like that and that's, that's amazing.

But for me, I would say I was more into the investigations and definitely having spent 17 years in polygraph, for me it was about learning how to communicate with people that are in a difficult situation. That there's a significant life event going on. Either there have [00:08:00] been trying to get a job with the Secret Service, so I'm trying to navigate 'cause we test all our applicants.

I'm trying to sensitive, handle that sensitive situation and navigate. Them to get good people into the organization and also also weed out people that are a problem. Um, but what we would like to do is we always would give back to the local community by doing polygraphs for local police departments.

And for me, that was my biggest takeaway in my time with the Secret Service, was being able to work hundreds of cases of homicide, child sexual assault, child sexual abuse material where we could learn how in this difficult situation to determine if this person did that bad thing or not. And if they did that bad thing, how can I get them in the right head space to want to feel comfortable enough with me to disclose to me that they did that bad thing?

And to me, that was my biggest takeaway, was learning how to get effective at getting people to disclose things that is probably not in their best interest, and then hopefully bring closure to the [00:09:00] victims and provide justice for the individuals that committed those acts. 

D Brent Dowlen: I'm Brad. You said you retired recently.

And you're getting into some podcasting. You're writing your book. It's coming out soon, right? Yeah. So what do, do you have a plan? What, what are we gonna be doing for a living now? 

Brad Beeler: Well, man, I hope to be doing some fishing and hunting. Um, you know, but, but obviously there's a lot that goes into the, to the book process.

You know, when you go through a book publisher versus self-publishing, you know, they put it on Amazon eight months before it comes out. And then they want you to do, which is good marketing, they want you to hit as many podcasts as possible and increase your followers and, you know, your website and all this.

And I'm. Crow magnan man, when it comes to marketing and self-promotion and all that. So I'm not good at that. I've learned a lot and I've got a lot of good people that are there. But yeah, so for the next eight months, it's gonna be doing wonderful shows like yours and, and things like this to try to hopefully get the book in the right space to where it can hopefully help some people.

And basically what it's [00:10:00] about, and I'm not here to promote the book, but it's one of those things where, um, I just basically try to make people better at having difficult conversations from prepping for the conversation to getting a better first impression all the way down to what's the world's perfect handshake.

Uh, because that has such a amazing, uh, introduction. And also you do it when you end a conversation and people tend to remember the first and last things when they talk to someone. And so if you mess that up, you, you, you go downhill quickly to active listening to detecting deception, to if somebody is deceptive with you, how do you get them?

To open up to you. And this could be a kid, it could be in the boardroom, um, or it could be in law enforcement. So I'm trying to kind of provide what I did in the law enforcement and protection realm and provide that to the soccer mom. Um, those, you know, make it universally useful to people. 

D Brent Dowlen: Now, I've seen the MythBusters episode recently when my daughter's actually, [00:11:00] because we're watching all reruns of MythBusters.

They're, they're 10 and 13, so it's, it's a great eight show for them right now. Mm-hmm. Um, and all of them bombed at trying to cheat the polygraph. Can you actually cheat a polygraph? Everybody wants, okay. So 

Brad Beeler: I gotta be, I obviously, I'll be a little careful with what I talk about, right. But I want to use an analogy for you.

All right. First on, when I go get on a plane, when I was in the Secret Service, we would travel on plane armed. So we would have to go meet the pilot, go through security, and so on and so forth. And when I would identify myself to the pilot, the first two questions they'd ask me about polygraph r is it effective?

And can you beat it? That's, so that's kind of what I'm gonna be talking about here with you. So let me talk about the effective part first, right? So, um, little personal story about me. My wife got breast cancer last year. She's thankfully just beat it and she's got into remission. But the amazing thing about it is, you know, the mammogram caught it and then she had to go in for further tests and she got her chemotherapy and it all worked out.

So mammograms are about [00:12:00] 88. Depending on who you act, ask 88 to 90% effective polygraphs, depending on who you act, are 85 to 90% effective. So I'm not trying to equate polygraph with a medical device, but I'm saying it's a tool that if used in the right time at the right place, on the right person with the right questions, it can help you diagnose an issue.

Lead to further inquiry, which is what obviously they did with my wife. And so I think there's a lot of value if you look at it like that. It is not perfect. It shouldn't be used in court because not everybody goes to the perfect school. Not everybody has quality control. Not everybody does cases when they should do it and not do it when they shouldn't.

Um, a lot of people will do the, the Jerry Springer type polygraph, and that's what people know it as. Are you the father? Are you, that is not polygraph. Okay? So I, I will say that as far as effectiveness, if done in the right situation at the right time, so be it. It's kind of another [00:13:00] analogy I like to give Brent, is it's kind of like a, when people say, oh, it doesn't measure lies, it measures stress.

And I'm like, okay, well, a smoke alarm doesn't measure a fire, but we still use them, right? In that if I put a smoke alarm in the kitchen, I'm gonna get some false reads, right? Mm-hmm. It's gonna be cooking, whatever the case may be. But if I take that smoke alarm and I put it in an upstairs bedroom. It's not measuring fire, we probably shouldn't take it.

Well, you know what? It measures 500 degrees in smoke and that's an uninhabitable. So I would want to know that. So it's the same thing with polygraph. I need to use it in the right time, in the right place, and I need to take everything with a grain of salt and, and, you know, use that as part of an investigation.

But also the polygraph is one thing. It's the information that I utilize in speaking to a person that had problems during a polygraph. You may not be able to use the polygraph in court, but when somebody says, I did that bad thing, I shot that person, whatever the case may [00:14:00] be to me during that session, I can definitely use that.

So that would be the first part of that argument. And I'm sorry if I'm kind of monopolizing a, a, a, but I figured the follow-up question was gonna come. So, um, as far as can you beat it

all the federal intel agencies, the federal law enforcement agencies that use this. We are very aware of what's on TikTok of what's out there, right? Regarding do this, do that to affect your physiology. If I do something twice a day for 25 years, I'm gonna know what normal physiology is and I'm gonna also know what TikTok produced physiology is, right?

Um, if something could be beaten, we wouldn't use it. Why would we use it? It would be like if TSA, if there was a TikTok that came out that said, Hey, if you wanna get through TSA, just wear this over your body or wear this, apply this to your body and you'll get through TSA. [00:15:00] Okay. Would TSA still use that equipment if it could be beaten?

Probably not. And it's almost like you have to provide logic to people that sadly get online. They go down this rabbit hole there. If you type in polygraph on Google, you're gonna get 2 million hits. The first three pages are gonna be all polygraph sucks. You're gonna be a false positive. You need to do this to help yourself out.

So you're never gonna get to that fourth page where you really start realizing, oh, okay, if done in this manner, or so on and so forth. If I'm just honest on my forms, I'll pass. But the way a polygraph works is somebody goes online and one of two things happen. They either feel like they need to help their selves out and we'll see it.

Or what they'll do is, man, I did use marijuana two years ago. I know it's asking me if I ever used an illegal drug. You know what? Nobody saw me do that. I'll just put no. And then when you're asked a question on the polygraph, did you falsify any information on your application forms? What do you think you're gonna be thinking about [00:16:00] the entire time?

Oh, damn. And it's gonna be an explosion inside your body. And I don't care what TikTok tells you to do, we're gonna see it. And if you try to do something to suppress it, we're gonna see it. But either way, the best way to pass a polygraph is to not research it. Get a good night's sleep, put food in your belly, come in and bear your soul.

If you do that, chances are you will pass. 

D Brent Dowlen: I actually hated even writing that down on my notes 'cause I know you get asked. That's 

Brad Beeler: okay. I'm used to it. 

D Brent Dowlen: Oh. You know those, there, there's those questions when you find doing research and somebody's like, shoot, if I don't ask this, someone's gonna want. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. But you gotta, you gotta ask those myth. Myth. MythBusters came to the same conclusion back in the nineties, like all three assistants and all of them like Mm. Like the guy running it just like, yeah, you all failed. You know? 

Brad Beeler: Yeah. Right, right. They try it [00:17:00] all and don't, don't do things you learn on, uh, TikTok.

D Brent Dowlen: Right. Yet, you know, we all know that TikTok is the age of wisdom now. Yes. Unfortunately, Brad. You talked to some of the worst people in the world and you mentioned earlier helping out with child cases and stuff like that. How do you deal emotionally with talking to murderers and child sex offenders and and the worst of the worst that's gotta weigh on you?

Brad Beeler: Yeah, it's, it's, it's very difficult. Um, I'm not gonna say that talking to people that take the life, another person is easy. But many of the people that I talked to that committed a homicide, they did it against somebody else that, I'm definitely not saying they deserved it, but somebody else that maybe did something to their friend or murdered somebody else.

And it was a, a situation where that person was not a, uh, a person. They just picked up out of the phone book. It was not a person they abducted on the street. It was somebody they had beef with 'cause that [00:18:00] person had committed a crime against them or so on and so forth. Doesn't make it right. I'm not condoning that, but when I would go home at night, I.

It was a little bit different. Now, some of the homicides that I worked where an 11-year-old girl was hit by a stray bullet or a 6-year-old was shot, um, accidentally. That obviously that that weighs on you, you know? But in the hundreds of situations where I dealt with people that would download child sexual abuse material, we don't call it child pornography anymore, we've really gotten away from that because it's not a choice.

It's not pornography, it's it's abuse matter. So we call it child sexual abusive material. In that, when you would talk to these individuals and they would talk about how they groomed a kid and how they exploited this kid, that is like, they would do the same stuff that our spies would do on how to try to get a source, but they weren't doing it to try to advance America's interests.

They were trying to do it to advance their own interests, and they were scarring these kids for their entire life and. [00:19:00] To not show contempt when you're talking to them and to rash, help them rationalize their behaviors. The problem, because the cognitive dissonance between who you are and who you are in the interview room to get them to feel comfortable and to fight off, showing that contempt, Brent, is what is hard.

And when you come home and you're greeted by your kids running up to you, Hey dad, you're home. It's late. You know, and, and you go to tuck them into bed. That's the, the, the mental calculus. It's a problem. And I'm always blessed because I would intentionally shield myself from the images, the abuse images, because I would find if I was to see those, there's no amount of suppression can keep you, keep those from coming to earth.

So that's why so many of our people that work, those cases from a forensic angle that have to look at the images, really have to sit in with a council. Every once in a while They, there's certain. Tips and tricks we can do, I don't wanna call 'em tricks, but just ways we can lighten this in that I never do [00:20:00] my work at home.

I never write reports at home. I always get a juujitsu session in before I write my report. When I come home from a long case. Brent, one of the things I've found, um, uh, I've got this, uh, Dr. Stacy with the Washington Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce. She's amazing. Where she taught me how to play a video game in your driveway before you walk in the house.

And that way I'm doing something. It could just be a game of chess, but I'm having to think. And so the last thought when I cross the threshold into my house and greet my kids is not that bad thing. So for me, that's made it better, but it's very, very difficult because if I show judgment to these people as they're making the disclosure, they are very keen on people's reactions.

That's part of the grooming process is that they sense that they sense they're not safe, that amygdala fires in their limbic system and they shut down. I truly have to have curiosity, and I truly have to have, you know, uh, not the what, but the, the why and why not from a judgment standpoint. Because too [00:21:00] many people, when you ask somebody why, and you have that face with it, it comes off as so judgmental.

And when somebody's done something bad and you're judging them, it shuts them down faster than nothing else. So almost like I have to have duct tape on my forehead to keep from showing contempt, and I have to deepen that voice, and I have to lean in and my eyes have to be soft. Um, and I truly have to be curious from a tactical empathy standpoint in order to try to get that information.

But it's a great question, and it's something I've struggled with for the last 10, 15 years. 

D Brent Dowlen: We just did a show on, uh, stress management talk, and we, one of the things we talked about was video gaming because it, it immerses all your senses. Even for a few minutes, it, you have to be fully immersed in this to actually function and engage and it takes you out of the current 

Brad Beeler: mindset.

Ab Abso, absolutely. Brent, I'm glad you brought that up because the second pillar of that for [00:22:00] me was the jiujitsu. And when I'm grappling with another human being that's trying to choke me or take my arm and you know, do an arm bar or whatever joint lock they're trying to do, if I'm not 100% on the mat, bad things are gonna happen to me.

Right. So it's interesting you brought that up because anytime you can do something where you have to be a hundred percent present, it really helps separate what you are doing to what you're into now. So I'm glad you brought that up. That's been very helpful for me. 

D Brent Dowlen: What is something everyone needs to know about you before we dig into the show today?

Brad Beeler: Oh, geez. Um, I. That is a great question, a question I've never been asked Brent. So that's why I'm, I'm, I'm glad I'm on here. Um, something I've never been asked. Um, you know, I, I, I'll be straight with you. The question you just asked was that, uh, about the emotional aspect. I've not been asked that before, which is surprises me.

But, um, as a, well, you can't really tell I'm a bigger guy. Um, you [00:23:00] know, a big bald guy, federal agent. A lot of times our egos get the best of us in that. We don't, we don't want to ask for help. And you saw this a lot, uh, in the Global War on Terror, where a lot of our armed service members came back with PTSD and they didn't, I don't wanna say ask for help, maybe we just didn't know how to recognize they were asking for it.

We didn't provide 'em the resources. Um, so. For me, I think the biggest thing to know for me is that you can, you can try to be the biggest badass you want, but uh, sometimes those scars are underneath. And if you don't have somebody to talk to those things about, um, you know, I've had great partners over the years where, uh, anytime I've, you know, been acting differently or I've been too far on the side of rationalizing with these bad guys, my buddies could reign me in and say, Hey, why don't you take a week off?

You know, why don't you, uh, why don't you go work some protection? Why don't you do something else for, for a week instead of talking to these, uh, bad guys? So something, uh, as far as something about me to know is, is that, uh, the [00:24:00] exterior is one thing, but we all have that gray matter, um, that we're, we're all vulnerable and, and I'm definitely not, uh, any different when it comes to that.

All right 

D Brent Dowlen: guys. We've been getting to know Brad just a little bit, who he is, what makes him tick, and what his life has been like, a little bit of his story. In the next part of the show, we're gonna dive into the role of curiosity and communication. We're gonna roll our sponsor and we'll be right back with more from Brad Beeler,

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In the first part of the show, we just spent some time getting to know who Brad was and what makes him tick. In this part of the show, we're gonna dive into the role of curiosity and communication. Now, Brad, I actually knew an FBI Polygrapher when I was younger. He was my youth minister, the volunteer youth minister when I was a teenager.

And one of the things that always amazed [00:26:00] me about him was like he, he had a physical presence. Like he, he was a big guy like you, but like everybody wanted to talk to him like we would be at places and like everybody wanted to speak to this man. Uh, he hated air travel because like if he didn't pull out that book immediately, the person next to him was dumped their life story.

And there was just something that made everybody wanna spill. And I don't think I'd ever seen that. My dad was a, my dad was a minister. He was good at talking to people and people liked him, but Bill just had this presence and I don't think people realized. With what you have done as a career, how successful you are at communication and moving past just average communication.

So, you know, let's, let's start there with, and what I can only imagine is fairly intimidating. Like I, I've only seen what I've seen on television, right? And mm-hmm. I'll hook you up a polygraph [00:27:00] and I know I'd get anxious just thinking about walking into that. So how is it with someone that actually has something they probably shouldn't share or don't want to share?

How do you get people to open up? 

Brad Beeler: Yeah. No, it's, we all have skeletons in our closet. I don't care who you are. Um, some are bigger, some are smaller. You brought up the ministry. It's interesting with the FBI examiner and also your father is, I find, um, people that have migrated to federal law enforcement or law enforcement from that background, they tend to be some of the best communicators because one, they're either giving sermons.

They're, they're researching their sermon, right? They're preparing for their sermon, their ability to connect the lyrics of what they're saying to the way that they say it to their body language on how they're saying. It is just so in tuned, they're able to look out at the congregation and seeing who's paying attention, who they're losing, uh, so on and so forth.

So people in the ministry are amazing communicators. And your friend probably always wanted [00:28:00] to grab a book because he was. So open that he wouldn't turn down that conversation. If that person opened up, he'd probably willingly engage in it. Um, and I'm the same as that. Uh, you don't wanna sit next to me on a plane, um, because I'm gonna start talking to you.

But what people do now is they put the earbuds in as a sign. I don't want to talk. Um, so unfortunately a lot of that, uh, has gone away. Plus we always have the, uh, you know, the communi, the, uh, on the, especially on the longer flights we've got the movies and, and stuff to listen to. But one of the things that, that I find with, with curiosity as far as being able to get people open up is we are so used to surface level questions.

How's the weather? How's this, how's that, that we never really get to that deeper foundational questions. So what I like to do is I talk about an analogy called feel, family, education, employment, and leisure. Too many times we talk about family, which people have very little control over, and then employment and education.

Sometimes just, that's just dependent upon where you live. You may not have a lot of choice in that either, or personal finances, [00:29:00] but what. I don't care if you're in prison or if you are walking the streets. What you do in your free time or what you dream you wish you were doing about your free time is a great talking point.

And I first learned this when I was in graduate school, small town kid, um, studying criminology. And I got a job working in the jail in St. Louis. And what we would do is we would collect, uh, information from arrestees. So all walks of life, men, women, prostitutes, murders, rapists, all runs the gamut. And it's amazing that their initial primacy effect of you is like, oh, who's this guy?

Is he a snitch? Is he an informant? But when you wouldn't ask, you know, just point blank questions and you would ask them, what do you like to do in your free time or where they would teach you? Um, if somebody's there for methamphetamines, like, dude. I've never really, you know, this is late nineties, so you didn't have the [00:30:00] internet.

I was like, dude, how do you make meth? And you show that honest interest, they'd be like, oh, well, you know, God. Okay, uh, well, you get some Coleman fuel and you get a two liter bottle and you get some matches, and you get, you know, some batteries and you do really, and you have faint disbelief, or you're like, no way.

Um, and then the next thing you know, they're, they're telling you how they sell it and how they package it. And you're like, oh my God, that's, but that stuff's really weak, right? So you'd make aal, uh, intentional misstatement and they'd be like, no, this stuff is so strong. And it's amazing what I learned in those two years about crazy stuff.

How to make, you know how to, how to process cocaine, how to turn it into crack, uh, methamphetamines, how to make moonshine. Two, how to increase the yields of my tomato, uh, tomatoes. If you just ask people. You let them teach you. And if I try to keep a ratio of three to one questions, to, um, I like to ask three times more questions of the person than, than they ask of me.

And I find that people will [00:31:00] say, oh my God, you're such a good listener. You know why? Because I'm listening. Because when I'm asking a question, I'm listening and I'm showing you signs of sincerity. I'm giving you empathetic statements. I'm giving you minimal encouragers, like shaking my head. And it's doesn't make someone a good listener, it just means you're asking the right questions.

And when people provide you answers that are something they're passionate about, their dopamine goes off the charts, their oxytocin, that love neurochemical goes off the charts. But more importantly, what doesn't register is cortisol. The stress hormone. Like, let me ask you this, Brent, what do you like to do in your free time?

I'm gonna turn this around. What do you like to do in your free time? 

D Brent Dowlen: Oh no, you're gonna put me on the spot. Yeah. Um. Honestly, like any, any free time goes to my wife and kids. That's, that's what, okay. 

Brad Beeler: So here's the thing. Surface level question would be that, right? It would just stop right there. Mm-hmm.

What do you like to do with your, your wife and [00:32:00] kids when you do have free time? 

D Brent Dowlen: I don't actually care. I, I, anything they want to do, I just want to be with them. 

Brad Beeler: Okay. So I would have to work, I gotta peel back those layers of the, of the onion to say, to say, well, what would be the perfect, even if you couldn't afford it, what would be the perfect vacation for you guys?

D Brent Dowlen: Oh goodness. Uh,

this gets complicated 'cause my wife and I are very different on this. Um, uh, like we're, we're getting ready to go camping. Uh, okay. We're gonna go to the ocean and, uh, awesome. My daughters get up with me and go for a walk about. 5:00 AM at the lowest tide. So we can walk out there and just like find crabs on the beach and starfish.

Oh yeah. 

Brad Beeler: Seashells, all that stuff. Yeah. What is it about that time you appreciate most Brent? 

D Brent Dowlen: It is that deep connection, just watching my kids be in awe and discover new things and [00:33:00] experience new experiences, just watching Blossom in that. 

Brad Beeler: So here's the thing. If, if you were a bad guy and I was talking to you, and whether you did the crime or not, if I'm trying to connect with you, I saw your face light up when you were talking about your kids on the beach.

I, I saw your face light up, right? You, you're literally going back through that moment, whenever that was. You're reliving that. And so right now, if we took a blood draw on you, I'd see crazy amounts of dopamine. If I could measure your oxytocin, I'd see crazy amounts of oxytocin. But more importantly, the cortisol would be so low you would not be stressed because you're talking about such a wonderful thing.

So I like to go there. I like to spend a lot of time there because it has a real connection. So let's say, you know, if I've got kids, my perfect vacation may be something completely different, but that same enjoyment I get, I can connect with you on that point. And the same thing with hobbies. Let's say you [00:34:00] don't do a Brazilian jiujitsu, but you go fishing.

Well, Brent, why do you like to go fishing? I just like to get away from the hustle and bustle. I like to have my own time. I like to be present with nature so I could connect with you on that, even though I might not know anything about fishing. So it's really asking those questions that get to the underside of the iceberg that lighten you up, okay?

That bring that cortisol down. Because if I'm polygraphing you, it's because you either want your dream job or you are accused of a bad thing. Either one of those are significant life event. You're gonna come in, your heart rate's about one 30, right? You're freaked out, you're sweaty, right? You're, you're, you're have anxiety going through the roof.

But if I bring that up. I don't care what the situation is, you're gonna calm down and it's gonna let me get a better read. It's gonna get, let me get, hopefully a better result for both of us. So I, I think that is where curiosity comes in, is it, it gets people to go to a good place in their life, whoever they are.

So[00:35:00] 

D Brent Dowlen: if we take that right, because I know my experience is people love to talk about themselves, right? Yeah. Uh, I've, I've done a whole lot of interviews as a podcaster now over the years, and people love to talk about themselves there. There's never, there's never a shortage. Uh, I've, I've been an event coordinator for years.

Mm-hmm. I've never in my life had a hard time finding someone who wants to jump on stage and talk. Right. Everybody wants to be in the big show. Mm-hmm. And we're, we've learned to. I, I honestly, um, go back a lot of times and blame MySpace. Like MySpace was the first time we built all three to ourselves. Yes.

It was this place where we look at how amazing I am, 

Brad Beeler: how perfect I am. Yes. 

D Brent Dowlen: Right. Uh mm-hmm. Friends started and we got less curious about each other and got more focused on self. 

Kiera Knigtly: Yep. 

D Brent Dowlen: That tends, that that's the [00:36:00] current environment most people are living in. So how can people use this to start connecting with the people around them, whether they're trying to get that job?

Yeah. They're trying to maybe connect with their kids, their wives better. 

Brad Beeler: How do we improve? Yeah. So that's, yeah, that's, that's, that's a great, uh, I'm glad you brought that up, Brent. 'cause you're right. MySpace started all off and then it was just from there, exponential increase. Right. So my best friend's deaf and for 35 years.

We've spoken through. Uh, I, I slow down. I really enunciate. He can lip read, but I learned sign language so I can kind of spice our connection, but I've gotta be present in that conversation. And for about the first 20 years of our existence, we didn't have emojis. We didn't have smartphones. I would have to call an operator who would try to breathe life in the, in what he was texting, um, to make it a good conversation for me.

[00:37:00] But he never got that. But once he got emojis, he went from the world's best com. Uh, he went from the world's best I I'd ever been around at, at understanding hidden emotion because he had to be present. He had to see, are you tracking? Are you collected? My message, he loved to ask questions to when emojis came in, right?

Everything just became asynchronous text. Time to think about it. Okay, here would be the perfect response. Boom. No improv, no. None of that. Okay. So I think one of the best ways to get better at it is to communicate to people like this. I love to FaceTime people. I love to set up zoom meetings when I have, you know, a business talk because I wanna see the other person.

If I send, if my wife sends me a text and it says, if I say, how you doing? And she says, I'm fine. No emojis. What the frick does that mean? Does it mean I'm fine or does it mean I'm fine? I don't know. [00:38:00] That's why I would love to just look at her face and be like, Hey, how's work going? Oh, it's great. I'm fine.

I, I see it now. Right? So that's how you connect is you look people in the eye in real time and you talk to people and I think there's gonna be a seed change where you see it. My, my kids, I got the same age kids as you. And um, I see it now too, where sometimes now they like to, to zoom, they like to FaceTime more than they do the text because they're starting to realize that they're smart.

We gotta give 'em more credit than they did, is that before MySpace, everybody put their diaries under their beds and they locked them away. And now everybody's diaries is a daily feed that's been filtered that, Hey, I'm gonna bring my hips in a little bit. I'm gonna tighten my jaw in a little bit. I'm gonna do all this to create the idealized version of myself.

Right? So in order to get away from that, we need to have real time face-to-face communications because, uh, I think the best communicators now are people that do that. Because they don't miscommunicate. 'cause I can see, as I'm speaking to you right now, I can [00:39:00] see if I get a minimal encourager from you. I get that little head nod, like, you're tracking or I get that little Hmm.

Ah, like, he's not tracking. He didn't understand. It's the same thing. Your father, when he was doing ministry and he's talking to the congregation, he's gonna see if people are tracking him in real time. And if they're not, but if he just writes up a, you know, or if he sends an email or a newsletter, he doesn't get to see who he's affecting.

So more face-to-face communication, I think is the answer. 

D Brent Dowlen: I actually had a hard time transitioning into podcasting mm-hmm. When I was starting because staring at a camera was so unnatural to me. Yes. Uh, I started as a solo show. I wasn't doing interviews yet, and I actually had, like, I, I printed out a picture of my friend and, and cut a little mm-hmm.

Out, put it over the lens of the camera. Because staring at a lens, I was just, so, I, I stopped my first episode on YouTube. It's hilarious. [00:40:00] 

Brad Beeler: Yep. Yeah, no, that's, that's an interesting point now because so many people, and I kind of reverse engineer it, but you know, if I have my camera up top and I try, I'm trying to make eye contact with you on the YouTube side, but then I can't see your reactions to what I'm saying.

So when people view the screen, it looks like I'm looking down. So one of the great, you know, couple years ago that Kickstarter started this whole camera that would pop down and be in the middle of the screen mm-hmm. Or the suction cup. And that's what I've got is, so it's right over your face, so right to your left of your face.

So it looks like I'm looking at you right now, but yet I can see your reaction. So it's the best of both worlds as human beings want eye contact at about 70%. Um, so I can provide the eye contact. But yet I can see your reaction. So if, if nothing else from this podcast, um, you can either buy one of those fancy ones that're not that expensive, [00:41:00] or you can just rig it up to where your webcam is right in the middle of your screen and it looks like you're looking, um, at the, at the audience.

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah. I, I have my SLR on a mounted that goes up. Mm-hmm. Yep. Smart. Otherwise smart. Yeah, it's correct actually. See, but making transition to podcasting, I grew up speaking and so, and I used to be a youth minister and where most people are terrified of public speaking, for me, it was very comfortable venue.

And because I could gauge, like you said, I could see people, you pick a couple people in the audience. Mm-hmm. And they're your mirrors, you're, you're watching. 

Kiera Knigtly: Yeah. Yes. 

D Brent Dowlen: These two or four people. And how they're responding and switching to staring at a screen was just so. It's difficult to start out with.

Brad Beeler: It is. It is. It's a blank space. And you said picking a couple people in the audience. The key to to to that is don't just pick the people that are always gonna be your fans. 

Kiera Knigtly: Yeah. 

Brad Beeler: I like to pick one of those people [00:42:00] and then I like to pick the person that's just starting out the presentation with their arms crossed head down.

Why am I here? Because between two of those, I'm gonna find out where we're at. Okay. If I can get that person to uncross their arms and lean forward a little bit that that's not real happy at the start, I know I'm doing a good job. Um, too many times we pick our people that are always vibing off us.

They're our best friends and we just contact them and we don't know if we're doing a good job or not. They're just our, that, they're our running buddies. They're our wolf pack. So get one of each, you know, to help you gauge

D Brent Dowlen: if your relationships are not where you want 'em to be. I want you to know I got you. Relationships take a lot of work and they can fall on the back burner pretty easily. As your empire building guys, and I know you're putting a lot of work on your life, but unfortunately that often means the things that really matter, like the people in our lives kind of suffer from the consequences of neglect.

Men often suffer from [00:43:00] damage to their relationships while they're trying to provide and fulfill their responsibilities. Reach out, schedule your free discovery call at purpose-driven men.com to learn the skills you need to connect deeply with the people who matter most, and let's get those relationships that you're doing this all for.

Patched up today, you said the FEEL acronym, family Employment, education Leisure. And we lean into family sometimes a little much because that's just what we, yeah. Migrate towards. How can I use this in like a coworker or a job scenario? Where I am trying to connect with my coworkers is just the same approach.

I'm gonna ask them like leisure questions and 

Brad Beeler: Yeah, I, that's a good, that's a good question, Brent. So too many times it's, what are you doing this weekend? Oh, I'm grilling, oh, I'm playing golf. Oh, I'm this, and that's it. You've gotta ask that next question one. Oh, that's, that sounds awesome. Like what, what, uh, what kind of grill you got?[00:44:00] 

Oh, I got a green egg. Oh, you're kidding me. So do I, dude, I love that thing, man. That thing is, gets up to 900 degrees, does this and this, or they have a pellet grill, or they have what, whatever it is. What are they grilling? What kind of grill? What's their setup? Um, I'm going hunting. Oh, what are you hunting for?

You know, whatever it is you've gotta ask, and I know this sounds so simplistic, but too many times we just ask the question, what are you doing this weekend? The reason I like to ask that question on a Friday is because they're probably not gonna be working, so now you're gonna ask a question of something they're doing in their free time.

It lets you ask that follow up question. So go to that three to one ratio, and you'll find, man, people will start opening up to you because they're like, oh, he's such a good listener. No, I'm just asking questions. I can't be talking while they're talking. So I automatically become in their eyes, a, a good listener.

And then look, there's gonna be times where people just don't open up to you. Uh, don't, don't try too hard with those people. It's work. Some people don't wanna [00:45:00] cross that threshold and be your buddy. And I think you're gonna sense that from a body language standpoint when, Hey, I've tried multiple times to open up to Bob and it's just not happening, so don't try too hard.

Um, but yeah, I think Friday's a really good time to ask, Hey, which, what, what, what do you got going on this weekend? And then in your situation you may say, Hey, I'm going camping. Oh, where, where you headed? Uh, you got a little popup. Are you doing a tent or, and that just kind of gets into that next thing.

And before you know, you've been talking an hour, who's been talking for 50 of those minutes, you. Dopamine. All right, cortisol's down. You are associating me now with a friend, because guess what? I'm showing you a, an eyebrow flash when you're talking. I'm popping my head to the side to expose my carotid artery.

I'm leaning in to show interest. I'm not crossing up, I'm not having, um, you know what? We, you know, the cross arms, the cross lo, those, those anchor points. I, I don't have those. I'm showing like, I honestly care. I'm giving you those mental mill encouragers, and as a result, you're associating me with taking in what I'm, the stimulus that I'm [00:46:00] providing.

So, um, I think leisure to me is the easiest way to do that. You can get way too personal. One, if you talk at employment, you're talking work. Um, in St. Louis, where I'm from, it's, it's a common kind of joke that when you first meet somebody, you say, what high school did you go to? Um, because that says there's so many high schools.

And it says, did you go private? Did you go public? Are you a north side or south sider? So in some areas, that is a good question to ask people, but family can be too personal. You know, especially with work colleagues. So a nice safe space is that leisure block. And let's say I would talk to a lot of people in jail where they'd be like, dude, what do you mean?

What do I do in my free time? I'm fricking locked up 23 hours a day. I'll say, well, in a perfect world, what would you do? Or when you get out, what do you want to do? Oh, then their eyes light up, then they start talking to you. So even if it's not something they can do right now because they're overworked or they don't have time, too many times I hear that BS of, I just don't have time.

So follow it up with, well, if you did in a [00:47:00] perfect world type thing, what would you do? And you'd be surprised at how many times that can further the conversation. 

D Brent Dowlen: I, I feel like we have to jump back to something you said earlier in the conversation, and it was, you have to come across very genuine. One of the things you have to work about with some of the people you have to interview is not showing that judgment or that disdain, or having that reaction because you have to.

Show a genuine curiosity. Yes. And I'm not sure that everybody, especially in today's culture, is Yeah. Familiar with how that actually looks, right? Because it's one thing you can ask the question, but if you don't actually wanna know the answer, like it's gonna be stamped on your face. 

Brad Beeler: Yeah, no doubt. And it's, uh, a couple things.

When you're doing curiosity, if I ask you, um, Hey, what are you doing this weekend? You're like, oh dude, I'm, I'm running a five KI [00:48:00] want, let's say I've done a full Ironman. The last thing I want to do is, so you, I ran a, a marathon. I don't, I don't want, when you talk about something that's important to you, and I don't want to get into the comparative nature to, and I'm sure you've seen this tons of times where you bring up a topic and somebody immediately says, oh, me too.

And then you're not talking now. Now we're comparing, and too often in society now, that's what we do. So. If I've done something that you've done, I wanna still be curious and I want, yeah, I eventually, I'm gonna circle back to we share this interest, but I don't want it to be about me. It's not about me, it's about you.

So I gotta it, it's called the Platinum Rule. And Dr. Alessandra talked about this, and it's not do unto others as you want done unto them. It's do unto others, is they want done unto them. And what they want done unto them is to be able to talk and to be able to inquire, be, be inquired about. So I want to keep the focus about them.

I don't wanna provide them advice when I'm talking to them. [00:49:00] Um, and I don't want to, like you brought up, show contempt. And that's just in the form of furrowing the brow. Um, and you've probably seen this, Brent, when somebody asks you or you ask somebody a question and it could be on a podcast or it could be work, and they maybe didn't hear you, but they're like, what?

And they furrow their brow down. That is such a universal sign of contempt and like, whoa. Wow, man, that, so I've lost admissions, uh, confessions to that where somebody was providing me at an admission, at about an awful thing they did. I, if this was a more, uh. Not so much of a PG podcast. I could get a little bit more specific.

I don't wanna talk about some of the things that your listeners may have a problem with, but applicants have told me things that I remember. One in particular, and I won't get into the specifics of what this said, but I was training another polygraph examiner and I'm going through a list of criminal activity and I'm just like, oh, okay.

All right. So you did that? Yeah. Okay. What else? You know, okay. What [00:50:00] else? Oh, okay. Yeah, don't worry about it. Keep that outside the room. Like I'm showing no judgment when this person is talking about some horrific criminal activity that I know they're not gonna get hired on the job now, but I'm just collecting it all.

And he said the craziest thing I've ever heard that he had done when he was earlier and involved some an animal, okay, I'll just leave it at that. And I was just like, oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So you're only 16. Okay, don't worry about it. No big deal. My partner, I can see outta my corner of my eyes is just like, oh my god.

You know? And it's one of those things where. I had done that early on in my polygraph career when somebody was making some significant admissions to me, and I just showed a little micro expression of contempt and it shut 'em down. And I lost any further admissions because of judgment in that agen. Um, and I don't know what, um, what denomination that you were in, uh, when you were a minister, but in the Catholic faith, imagine the concept [00:51:00] of the confessional.

Why do people go to a confessional now? It's part of the Catholic faith, but what aspects of a confessional make it open for communication? If I, if I had to ask you, Brent, what would you say? Non-judgment. Non-judgment, right. No priest is gonna be in there and somebody's coming in and say, Hey, forgive me father for I've sinned.

And whatever they say, the priest follows up with, are you kidding me? I. Really, and they're not gonna scream it. And they don't have a microphone, one of these fancy microphones in front of us while they're doing it. And they're not even looking at them. And it's shrouded and they don't know who they're talking about.

And it's, and it's anonymity, right? That's, that's good communication. That's like your friend. If you're talking to your friend, Brent, whoever your best friend is, and let's say you're having a problem at work, what are they gonna do? You're talking to 'em. 'cause you like trust and respect them, but also they're gonna be blaming your boss.

They're gonna understand why you did what you did, and they're gonna [00:52:00] minimize the impact of your actions. They're gonna be your buddy. Okay? I've got an acronym that basically you blame anyone else. You understand why they did it. You don't maybe agree with it, but you understand it. You diminish the impact of the actions.

You demonstrate commonality through metaphors and analogies, and you focus on the why and not the what You be there buddy. Okay? And that's, that's what we want to do to get people to open up to us. So I'm glad you brought that up because I think the. The, the priest analogy is a good one that anybody can kind of resonate with, is that you don't show contempt, but more importantly, you don't show judgment.

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah. It's become a very difficult thing. Uh, I, I like to make people uncomfortable because I do talk to people for a living, so I'm that guy that you're like walking by at church. I, I love the shallow relationships at church where people are like, Hey, how you doing? I'm like, well, actually, right. No one's expecting you to actually give that answer.

They're like, you know, we're [00:53:00] conditioned. We, how you doing? Oh, I'm great. Are you? Mm-hmm. Really? Because you look a little tired. Things don't look like they're going Well, uh, no one, no one's expecting the answer anymore because we've, yeah. Just gotten to this surface level. 

Brad Beeler: Yes, and your follow up when it's around, everybody else is probably gonna lead to, no, really I am.

But if you were in a private setting with them, or if after, after the, the service, if you were in a private situation, you could probably put your hand on your shoulder and be like, really? How's it going? And you'd be surprised that maybe they might open up to you. So privacy plays such an important part in communication.

So if you can be curious in private while being non-judgmental, you're gonna get information, uh, at a lot higher rate.

D Brent Dowlen: Oh, there's so much to unpack today, guys. Before we, uh, before we go any farther, do all the good social media [00:54:00] nonsense that, you know, I hate in this part of the show. Uh, like, share better yet, share this with somebody that actually matters to you. That's, that is the best thing. I, I don't even, I don't care about the likes, whatever.

I hate the social media nonsense. You guys all know that. Share this with somebody who would benefit from this conversation, that this will help them in actually apply some of these things that Brad is sharing with you guys. Guys, this is solid gold, okay? Communication is a dying skill these days, and we need it more than ever right now in our lives.

So please, please, please share this with somebody who would benefit from this conversation. Now, Brad, you have seen communication up and down in every aspect of it, and people are, so,

I wanna say jaded, right? Mm-hmm. We, we've gotten to such a point in society that people don't believe anybody cares, that people don't think anybody's [00:55:00] actually invested in them, and half the time we're terrified. Someone's just trying to like lie to us and take advantage of it. 

Kiera Knigtly: Yes. Yep. 

D Brent Dowlen: Right? So how do we, how do we help ourselves to navigate that scenario where we want to connect with people and someone's starting to communicate with us?

How do we get out of our own way and communicate, but not get, get taken advantage of in that situation? 

Brad Beeler: Yeah. So you want to have almost a, a ta, you know, we, we want, we wanna be curious, but you want to almost trust but verify when people are coming at you with anything. I learned this just with the amount of scams that we would investigate in the secret services.

Most of them revolve around trying to get immediate trust, trying to use influence principles and trying to force an action immediately. So, uh, they want to have access to you. Access is what's so important, and in the old days it used to have to be somebody that would come to your door to get access.

Now they can do it online in a million different [00:56:00] ways. Um, so the, the key way to avoid that is to give yourself time to think, to verify. Um, but. It's, it's, it's hard that we live in this world because we're so tribal, right? We're so Fox News versus Nbu NBC, you know, or this versus that Republican versus Democrat, blue and red.

And that, the one thing about the Secret service that that helped me was we protected people from all over the world and we protected Republicans and we've reflected Democrats on a daily basis. And we didn't get involved in the politics. Yes, we had our internal views, but one day I would be hearing a Kamala Harris speech and the next day I'd be hearing a Trump speech.

Not, you know, I'd be in the, you know, you'd be, you know, doing your work. And so you would see both sides and you would see attendees of both sides. And that's what I always say to people is be careful the rabbit hole you go down in that, try to have friends that are on both sides of the aisle. Watch. Um, I'm a big fan and I'm [00:57:00] not gonna, you know, mention any here you can go find, you know, your listeners can go find your own.

But there's news sources out there. Surprisingly, do the Walter Cronkite thing and just report the news, and then they let you decide. Um, so you can find these independent news sources that will just provide you information. And I like to look at both sides because the criminals I talk to, uh, come from all walks of life.

Some are conspiracy theorists. Some think the, the moon landing was fake. Whatever your little thing is, the earth's flat. I, I've heard it all. I need to understand both sides of that equation and where they're coming from in order to connect with them. So if you're stuck in this little, uh, it's like my parents at Christmas.

Um, my parents are on one side of the political, political spectrum. My wife's parents are 100% on the other side of the political spectrum. And when they get together over the Turkey or the ham, it's interesting because I just know when the grenade is lobbed by one of my sisters. That it's just, it's an explosion and you're just better off not to talk about those [00:58:00] things, not to talk about politics.

So my hope is that people get a variety of news sources so that they can collectively make up their own opinion. Um, because when you don't do that and you stay in your tribe, conspiracy theories thrive and communication is only with people that agree with your opinion and that's never gonna help you.

D Brent Dowlen: No echo chambers. 

Brad Beeler: Yes. 

D Brent Dowlen: You have to listen to me even though I'm a conspiracy theorist. Correct. I actually love, uh, finding people with different ideals and opinions. 'cause it makes conversations more fun. 

Brad Beeler: Yes. And you learn things. Or at least even if you don't agree with them, you may, you may learn to see things from a different perspective, or at least you understand why they feel that way.

Right. Which sometimes it's half the battle. Right. 

D Brent Dowlen: Back, back, uh, pre 2016 election, I went outta my way to find a non-mainstream news commentator who was on the opposite side of the aisle for me. 

Kiera Knigtly: [00:59:00] Mm-hmm. 

D Brent Dowlen: Yeah, because I found, he actually just reported the news. He was very Walter Cronkite on that, which I deeply appreciated.

Yeah. And it's like, okay, you know, why do people feel this way as opposed to this way? Right. I, I wanted, I just wanted an honest opinion, not a, some kind of sl on it. So I respected his journalism and it's like, okay, I want to hear this other side. 

Brad Beeler: The key, the key word there, Brent, is you said the word respect.

Right? Think of it this way, like the NHL finals just ended the other day. You know, you got the Panthers. You got the Oilers. They're beating the tar out of each other for six games. When the Panthers won, what do they do at the end? They get together, they take their helmets off, they take their gloves off, and they shake hands.

They have respect for one another, and that's what we've lost as a society in that, um, most of my protection was with George Herbert Walker Bush and spent four years with him. And the one thing [01:00:00] I saw about him was his no new taxes and then going back on, it was not a political ploy. He did that because he thought that that was a better deal for the American people.

He didn't care about poll numbers. He was told by his advisors when the Berlin Wall came down, go over there and have a big political rally. And he is like, no. That puts Gorbachev in a horrible situation. Yeah, but you'll get five percentage point bump. It may help you win the 92 election. It's not about politics.

People since then, you know, it's, you don't have that middle 15, 20% as much as we, we should. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, get outta the echo chamber, listen to the other side. You may not agree with them. I don't agree with child molesters and murderers, but I talk to them and I listen. Why did they feel as if they needed to do that thing?

Because next time I talk to one of them, I'm gonna have more understanding and more understanding and be able to relate to them. Don't agree with it, but I'll be able to talk to 'em a lot better next time. 

D Brent Dowlen: Guys, this, this is living proof. You [01:01:00] can actually talk to anybody no matter how much you dislike it.

Literally. Literally, right? We can learn to communicate respectfully and just starting with this curiosity approach is going to change the conversations you're having with people for the better you can improve all the relationships, your work relationships, your family relationships. The this little tidbit of just curiosity and actually being invested in other people is gonna move the needle for you so much.

Brett, where is the best place for people to connect with you? 

Brad Beeler: Yeah, I would say probably LinkedIn. Um, I really like messing around on LinkedIn and I'll definitely give you the, the show notes, or in the show notes you can put a link, but it's just Brad Beeler 1865, and that's the same on my Instagram. Um, so feel free to connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn, however I can help you.

I'd, I'd definitely be willing to do so. 

D Brent Dowlen: When's the book coming out? What's it called? 

Brad Beeler: Man, it's not till [01:02:00] February course, it's called Tell Me Everything. And, uh, I'm super excited about it. Uh, it's, uh, Simon and Schuster's distributing it, so I'm blessed to have a good distributor. But, uh, Matt Holt books and, uh, very, very excited to hopefully see how it turns out and, uh, hopefully can help in your personal and professional life.

D Brent Dowlen: Are you done writing the main manuscript and loan. How long did, yeah, I 

Brad Beeler: turned it in last week. Yeah, 25 years. It took me to write. Um, I, I literally did, but I would say, uh, between my time retiring, uh, I really ramped it up and, uh, was blessed to have good people like Joe Navarro, Robin Drake, some FBI, behavioral profilers, uh, you know, that body language experts and, and such that were able to kind of work with me.

Um, Dr. Abby Morono, um, which would be a great guest, uh, for you in the future, um, body language expert. She was very, very helpful in trying to help me kinda shape this. So I've been very, very happy to have good people in my corner. That's incredible. 

D Brent Dowlen: Now, what is [01:03:00] the next project beyond promoting the book?

Have you, have you gotten that far? Or we're just in the promotional survey? Write a, write another book. 

Brad Beeler: Write another book. We wanna write a book about, uh, a collaborative project with Dr. Uh, Morono. Um, her looking at the science behind trust and how to establish trust, and then the real world practitioner effect of how do we get trust from parents, teachers, coaches, friends, um, and then unfortunately criminals.

But how can we do that in everyday life, the further our relationships and do so in a, uh, non-adversarial standpoint? Because influence is kinda like a hammer. It can be used to build things and it can be used to break things. Um, it can be used maliciously. So we're gonna talk a little bit about how you can do both and how you can protect yourself from people that may be misusing it, narcissists and scammers and those types of things.

D Brent Dowlen: You guys, you guys should write a targeted book at, uh, social media influencers, how to build your following, how to build that, how to build your 

Brad Beeler: following, right? There you go. Using influence, techniques and trust. Uh, that's big. Alright, well if we do, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna credit [01:04:00] you, Brent, with coming up with that idea.

D Brent Dowlen: Uh, don't blame me, please. Now guys, I credit you, I know you're all dying to know what the top grossing movie of 2014 was, if anybody actually still cares. 'cause I don't actually, but you guessed Guardians of the Galaxy and you are Correct. In 2014 Guardians of the Guest Oh, was the truck. Oh yes, movie. I, I credit the soundtrack 'cause it had the most incredible soundtrack, but it's the right age group for me.

Brad Beeler: Yeah. Perfect, 

D Brent Dowlen: Brad. We, we've talked a lot and you've enlightened us a lot on our communication skills. I've, I've talked to people who specialize in communication before, but I've never had anyone dive into how being truly curious about people will actually impact in a massive way. And it certainly, with your experience in this, and we've covered a lot, but Right.

People tune in, tune out. 

Kiera Knigtly: Yep. 

D Brent Dowlen: If, if the people listening heard nothing else, and it doesn't even have to be about this, they're nothing else, [01:05:00] what do you want them to take away today? 

Brad Beeler: Take the time. What I mean by that is access. You've gotta be present and put your phone down when you're talking to people.

Okay? We don't do that. We we're multitasking. Multitasking. You can't do it. So when you're talking to your kids, when you're in meetings, put your goddamn phone down. Okay. And look people in the eyes and do a great handshake. And that grand great handshake is warm and it's dry. I put and Aman on my hands so you never get a wet handshake from me.

I warm it up and uh, I give a, it's a handhold. It's not a handshake. You do those things. You're gonna be gonna have a better first impression with people, but be present. Be in the moment. Don't multitask your kids. They need to come home and tell you how they did in school. If you're sitting there, you're looking at your Facebook reel while they're talking to you, they see that, they sense that.

So be present. 

D Brent Dowlen: Love it guys, for myself and Brad, thanks for hanging out with us today. Be better tomorrow because of what you do today, and we'll see on the next one. The Driven to Thrive broadcast, purpose, growth, and lasting impact for men, helping [01:06:00] men go from living to thriving. Purpose-filled intentional lives.

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